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CleanGene @ 26th Jul 12:28AM:
Re: end of the beginning, that's all

said by sturmvogel :

You know, no taxation without representation was in the beginning just a principle also.
I rather doubt this particular principle will inspire an armed revolution ;)
reply
sturmvogel @ 26th Jul 01:16AM:
Re: end of the beginning, that's all

said by CleanGene :

said by sturmvogel :

You know, no taxation without representation was in the beginning just a principle also.
I rather doubt this particular principle will inspire an armed revolution ;)
Maybe not, but will certainly bring an army of lawyers.
reply
Nerdtalker @ 26th Jul 02:05AM:
Re: end of the beginning, that's all

said by sturmvogel :

Maybe not, but will certainly bring an army of lawyers.
And, as we've seen, an army of angry customers/subscribers. :D
reply
funchords @ 29th Jul 03:48AM:
OpEd by Commissioner Robert M. McDowell - my response

With recent reports indicating that some votes in the Comcast case are already in, FCC Commissioner Robert McDowell writes in the Washington Post that the FCC should rely upon private collaboration instead of punishing Comcast for violating its Network Neutrality policy.

Like a befuddled victim who doesn't understand how a judge could find my attacker as "Not Guilty," I stand dumbstruck. Comcast was caught red-handed, their weapon pointed directly at our very freedoms, specifically the freedom to connect to whomever we want to using the programs we choose!

Robert McDowell, a jurist on this case owing to his position as FCC commissioner, prefers collaboration between private industry and public entities that have defined how the Internet works for a long time. We all support open and free governance of the Internet. But anything that affects our global network ought to be done in the light of day, not in secret backroom deals between Sandvine and network operators. And while I agree with the Commissioner that engineers ought to solve engineering problems, they need enforcement bodies like the FCC to step in when U.S. providers act nefariously -- just as Comcast was caught doing.

What McDowell ignores is that it was a private collaboration in the form of an agreement between Sandvine and Comcast to sell Internet access and its associated bandwidth and then use secret technology to interrupt some of that that access and take back some of that bandwidth that it sold.

In November 2007, Free Press and Public Knowledge, with the support of several other industry groups and individuals, filed a formal complaint They charged that the cable provider was violating the FCC’s 2005 Policy Statement – principles protecting consumers’ unfettered access to the open Internet. In the ensuing testimony and evidence, the following were all alleged and proven beyond all reasonable doubt:
Legal experts have weighed in and sustained the FCC's policy, that "the Commission has jurisdiction necessary to ensure that providers of telecommunications for Internet access or Internet Protocol-enabled (IP-enabled) services are operated in a neutral manner."

The jurisdiction, the policy and the violations are clear. Left without legal or technical defense, Comcast has latched onto a footnote to the Policy Statement that allows for "reasonable network management." At least half of the trees killed arguing this case have been felled arguing this subscripted three-word exception. To prevent Comcast from grasping at this straw, I demonstrated that Comcast's management was not reasonable. The blocking was not confined to periods of congestion, but ran 24 hours a day, seven days a week; an assertion denied vehemently by Comcast but supported by tests ran by the Max Planck Institute and ultimately confessed. I showed that not only was it detectable and perceptible, it completely blocked my attempts to upload legal content to users over the Gnutella P2P network. The tests by the AP and EFF also showed that this blocking occurred even when the activity was so small and limited that couldn't possibly harm the network.

The prosecution put Comcast's pathetic trail of tales and shenanigans into the record, which ranged from outright denials of their scheme, to a vague and ultimately inaccurate reference to "reasonable management" that "delays," to diversionary and empty promises to work with the Internet community, to a quasi-admission finally obtained during the cross-examination: that Comcast uses a non-Standard regime that blocks P2P uploads regardless of congestion, that they still think that was reasonable action to take, that they plan to keep doing it for a while, or may switch to another non-Standard scheme with different side-effects still unknown, and that the judges (any judges) are powerless to stop them!

The facts are apparently all in, the closing arguments made. The facts, evidence and the law are clear. So, how can even one jurist find the defendant, Comcast Corporation, "Not Guilty?"

What else do we have to prove? What else does Commissioner McDowell think that Internet users must endure before justice can be served?

With a case so strong, shouldn't we be able to get a unanimous vote?

Robb Topolski

PS: "I did, I did" -- no, we all did. But we really owe a debt to Free Press and Public Knowledge for standing behind the Internet's users on this. Yeah, I did a little of this stuff, but they turned it into something that will make a difference.
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anon @ 29th Jul 12:01PM:
Re: OpEd by Commissioner Robert M. McDowell - my response

What was his response?
reply
funchords @ 29th Jul 02:17PM:
Re: OpEd by Commissioner Robert M. McDowell - my response

((insert sounds of crickets chirping))
reply
funchords @ 30th Jul 02:23PM:
Comcast Case Is A Victory for the Internet (Public Knowledge)

Comcast Case Is A Victory for the Internet - Public Knowledge:
FCC Commissioner Robert McDowell missed that point when he wrote in The Washington Post on July 27 that the better way to handle the Comcast issue was by collaboration over regulation. McDowell wrote: “If we choose regulation over collaboration, we will be setting a precedent by thrusting politicians and bureaucrats into engineering decisions.” Here’s the rub. There is a mechanism for such collaboration. There is an Internet Engineering Task Force, made up of those who understand the inner working of the Internet best. As one of those Net luminaries, David Reed, testified to the FCC at the Cambridge hearing, what Comcast did was outside the bounds of acceptable practice. Collaboration broke down. Privately, some industry executives express nothing but disdain for the IETF, saying that the organization is simply a bunch of engineers with unenforceable standards.

This is where McDowell, in the same op-ed article, got it right: “If they (collaborative groups) can’t reach an agreement – which has never happened – then government could examine the situation and act accordingly.” This was just such a case. Despite the attention paid to Comcast, and the less attention paid to Cox, which is using the same techniques, neither company has stopped doing what it was doing – disrupting the traffic of Internet users for the most spurious of reasons. There have been a series of announcements form Comcast about how the company will work with this company or that to “solve” the problem, but a few words about talking of a potential agreement some day won’t cut it.

(read more)

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TKJunkMail @ 30th Jul 02:45PM:
Re: Comcast Case Is A Victory for the Internet (Public Knowledge

said by funchords :

Comcast Case Is A Victory for the Internet - Public Knowledge:
Here is a MUCH better look at what Martin is doing Re: Comcast & Net Neutrality.

»online.wsj.com/article/SB1217375···145.html

And because not everyone can read WSJ columns, I have attached the full article here:
[att=1]
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Click for full size
Martin&FCC_a···iots.pdf 145,914 bytes
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funchords @ 1st Aug 01:58PM:
FCC Decision: Comcast Must Stop P2P Interference and Disclose

Commission Orders Comcast to End Discriminatory Network Management Practices.
News Release: Word | Acrobat
Martin Statement: Word | Acrobat
Copps Statement: Word | Acrobat
Adelstein Statement: Word | Acrobat
Tate Statement: Word | Acrobat
McDowell Statement: Word | Acrobat

(Note -- this is current as of the time posted -- from www.fcc.gov)
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TKJunkMail @ 1st Aug 02:20PM:
Re: FCC Decision: Comcast Must Stop P2P Interference and Disclos

said by funchords :

Commission Orders Comcast to End Discriminatory Network Management Practices.
News Release: Acrobat
Chairman Martin Statement: Acrobat
Commissioner Copps Statement: Acrobat
Commissioner Adelstein Statement: Acrobat
You left out the 11 page dissection of the order by McDowell.

»www.fcc.gov/comcast-st-mcdowell-080108.pdf
McDowell practically begs Comcast to appeal the order to Federal Court because he felt the order was blatantly illegal and that the FCC had no power to issue it.

Commissioner Tate also voted against it in the 3-2 decision.
»hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/a···86A5.pdf
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funchords @ 1st Aug 02:38PM:
Re: FCC Decision: Comcast Must Stop P2P Interference and Disclos

said by TKJunkMail :

McDowell practically begs Comcast to appeal the order to Federal Court because he felt the order was blatantly illegal and that the FCC had no power to issue it.

Commissioner Tate also voted against it in the 3-2 decision.
The more he talked, the more uninformed his position sounded. He and I are more politically alike than different, and I was pretty upset at how badly his WashingtonPost OpEd missed the point.

Today's speech tells me that he didn't even understand the technical matters.

As to the legal matters, I have no earthly idea. Broadband is so misconstrued in the law, a simple legal quirk could make him right. It COULD be a sign of a real problem that five FCC commissioners can't agree on the law in this case, but it also could be a sign that McDowell is simply politicking by bringing up legal points that really aren't of consequence.

Should Comcast appeal? If there wasn't support for Network Neutrality legislation in Congress before, there would be after Comcast makes an appeal that the FCC is powerless to regulate it.
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ajax25 @ 1st Aug 03:44PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

Maybe there is some hope that that torrent that has been
setting at 50% with two seeders I can never get any
data from for the past week will actually get to complete.
reply
funchords @ 1st Aug 04:04PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

If those two seeders are on Comcast, it might (but not until the end of the year, probably).
reply
ajax25 @ 6th Aug 11:33AM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

As of last night 9 downloaders at 90.7%. Nothing moving.
I was able to connect to one of the seeders after
stopping and restarting the torrent. Only 16K of
data got through, but I was able to confirm that that
seeder was on comcast.
reply
funchords @ 6th Aug 01:20PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

said by ajax25 :

As of last night 9 downloaders at 90.7%. Nothing moving.
I was able to connect to one of the seeders after
stopping and restarting the torrent. Only 16K of
data got through, but I was able to confirm that that
seeder was on comcast.
That is the Sandvine behavior.

Delaying, not Blocking my ass.
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italiansmoke @ 6th Aug 02:06PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

I'm a Comcast customer, and I don't know if its my imagination or what... but I think alot of my connection problems(losing sync, unresponsive browser, having to restart modem/router) might have a connection to this.

It seems like whenever I open Limewire, and start downloading some stuff my connection dies. Does this have any relevance? I don't know how Sandvine works, but i've been noticing this when Limewire is running.

Any ideas?
reply
sturmvogel @ 6th Aug 03:10PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

We should "delay" paying Comcast for 3 months. After all, it is to better load balance the finances so that all of our creditors will have a better overall "experience".

We are not blocking payment, just delaying, so it must be right. Right ?
--
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NormanS @ 6th Aug 03:17PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

said by italiansmoke :

Any ideas?
Yes: When an ISP employs Sandvine, every problem can be traced back to Sandvine.

Sarcasm aside, loss of sync is a very unlikely side effect of the Sandvine appliance. Forged RST packets have no difference, at the lowest physical layer, from genuine RST packets. No way the modem will react to this Sandvine trick by dropping sync.

I've seen my browser become unresponsive when I let a BitTorrent client saturate my upload. I quickly learned, while on a 128kbps DSL upload, with a standard, bridged modem, that throttling my upload myself lead to a better browsing experience.

However (turning the sarcasm back on), I also know that Sandvine is responsible for the deaths of several of my sister's (she has Comcast Internet) cats! ;)
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

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italiansmoke @ 6th Aug 03:46PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

Hmmm... okay.
reply
funchords @ 6th Aug 04:11PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

said by sturmvogel :

We should "delay" paying Comcast for 3 months. After all, it is to better load balance the finances so that all of our creditors will have a better overall "experience".

We are not blocking payment, just delaying, so it must be right. Right ?
Priceless! -- Simply Priceless! :)
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JSRoman @ 6th Aug 04:27PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

Wouldn't you have to be a Comcast customer 1st? How is that working out for you?
reply
TheSaint @ 6th Aug 05:59PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

Comcast seems to be cutting off bit torrent traffic on private trackers, or at least in this area. I've just signed up for Comcast HSI. Speedtest.net and the like all come out with decent speeds, but whenever I use a private tracker the connections keep on resetting. Public trackers seem to work just fine with upload and download. What is worse than just the private trackers not working, I've noticed that when utorrent is running webpages also take MUCH, MUCH, longer to resolve. As a new Comcast customer, I am NOT impressed. No hard feelings to the techs here on DSLR that are trying to help out, but this is not even what I would consider Internet Lite. Will complaining to the local Comcast office make any difference? Will they even consider allowing more traffic in on a specific account? Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide!
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EG @ 6th Aug 07:37PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

said by italiansmoke :

Hmmm... okay.
Way agree with Norman on this !
reply
anon @ 6th Aug 08:59PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

Yeah, using that logic, employers should delay paychecks if employees are late with their reports or projects or slow with customer service. Brilliant logic once again. :uhh:


reply
sturmvogel @ 7th Aug 12:01AM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

I am. I still have their cable TV service, with some outages, not that bad. Overpriced and they keep whisking away channels to the digital tier, which I also have, but annoying for my TV in the kitchen.
Next question ?
--
Treason is a matter of dates

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sturmvogel @ 7th Aug 12:02AM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

said by goody two :

Yeah, using that logic, employers should delay paychecks if employees are late with their reports or projects or slow with customer service. Brilliant logic once again. :uhh:


And they do, it is called performance evaluation and corresponding compensation.
--
Treason is a matter of dates

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sturmvogel @ 7th Aug 12:45AM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

said by funchords :

said by sturmvogel :

We should "delay" paying Comcast for 3 months. After all, it is to better load balance the finances so that all of our creditors will have a better overall "experience".

We are not blocking payment, just delaying, so it must be right. Right ?
Priceless! -- Simply Priceless! :)
Yeah, they get quite upset when applying their logic to them as I see the "volunteer" supporters coming out. I am not doing so well financialy and I feel CC is "abusing" my finances with their high prices and continuous rate hikes. They "must drastically alter" their billing practices. How much is acceptable, I do not know and could not tell them if I knew, because they would just bill under that limit that I already deem acceptable and that would be bad, because everybody would do it. I will look around each month how much the electric and water companies charge and I will decide if CC is in the 0.1% top billers in my household. If yes, it is a resource hog and is depriving other services of using my money.
--
Treason is a matter of dates

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funchords @ 7th Aug 03:23AM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

Hi TheSaint,

Comcast seems to be cutting off bit torrent traffic on private trackers, or at least in this area.
Sorry, I can't figure out why that would be. The bits on the wire aren't any different.

I've noticed that when utorrent is running webpages also take MUCH, MUCH, longer to resolve.
That's a sign that you have your uTorrent upload speed limit set incorrectly. If you're on a 6/1 Mbps cable connection, I would set your upload speed limit to somewhere around 16 KB/s to 24 KB/s.

Don't be fooled with the 1 Mbps upload size that you think you have -- it's probably shared beyond all reasonableness. So that you don't interfere with your own and your neighbor's use of the net, I would treat it as about a third of that.

If you're going to be a heavy user of P2P, I would recommend DSL. Even though the peak speeds are slower, the prices are cheaper the amount of bandwidth that they can carry without interfering with the neighborhood is a lot higher.

Cable Internet has its strengths, P2P file-sharing is not one of them.
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anon @ 7th Aug 10:22AM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

said by sturmvogel :

said by goody two :

Yeah, using that logic, employers should delay paychecks if employees are late with their reports or projects or slow with customer service. Brilliant logic once again. :uhh:


And they do, it is called performance evaluation and corresponding compensation.
Let's keep our on the ball here. We were talking about delaying, not adjusting, payments. Performance evaluation/corresponding compensation do not result in delaying pay checks.
reply
sturmvogel @ 7th Aug 11:51AM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

said by goody two :

said by sturmvogel :

said by goody two :

Yeah, using that logic, employers should delay paychecks if employees are late with their reports or projects or slow with customer service. Brilliant logic once again. :uhh:


And they do, it is called performance evaluation and corresponding compensation.
Let's keep our on the ball here. We were talking about delaying, not adjusting, payments. Performance evaluation/corresponding compensation do not result in delaying pay checks.
If performance is not satisfactory, an employee could be put on a developmental plan with or without a temporary pay cut until the performance improves. When the performance improves, the full pay rate is applied.

I guess it is a delay oy payments.
--
Treason is a matter of dates

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NormanS @ 7th Aug 01:11PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

said by TheSaint :

Comcast seems to be cutting off bit torrent traffic on private trackers, or at least in this area. I've just signed up for Comcast HSI. Speedtest.net and the like all come out with decent speeds, but whenever I use a private tracker the connections keep on resetting.
Not having used private trackers on a Comcast connection, I can't directly address that. But, in order to distinguish between public and private trackers, Comcast would have to take the time to build up a database of which trackers are public, and which are private. A rather costly, and, thus, unlikely activity on the part of Comcast. Without that knowledge, how would the Sandvine appliance distinguish between the two?
Public trackers seem to work just fine with upload and download. What is worse than just the private trackers not working, I've noticed that when utorrent is running webpages also take MUCH, MUCH, longer to resolve.
Having used my sister's Comcast connection to download fansubbed anime, I can assure you that my usage never adversely affected my sister, or her family. The thing is, I was always "upload impaired" with uTorrent while working her connection. I never pestered my brother-in-law about poking holes through his NAT appliance. I just downloaded until complete, but kept the tracker until I could return to my DSL connection and seed until reaching 1.050 (which is where I have set uTorrent to automatically stop uploading).

BTW, on my DSL connection, I used to throttle upload way back (maybe half, or so), when I had a standard, bridged DSL modem. I have since replaced that with a SpeedStream 4100 DSL modem, which, reportedly, performs outbound ACK packet prioritization. And added a D-Link DIR-655, with the default QoS setting. Although my connection theoretically can sustain 39kB/s upload, I still throttle it back. I have uTorrent set for 29kB/s upload.

I would strongly advise you to consider the advice of funchords. He knows way more about how this stuff works than I do, and way more about how cable (in general) and Comcast (in particular) work.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

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anon @ 7th Aug 01:23PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

Pay cuts are just that, not delays, as employees won't get back the reduced amount.

The reality is that in general poorly performing employees get warnings and eventually get fired if improvements are not made.
reply
italiansmoke @ 7th Aug 01:55PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

I have my torrent upload speed set at 15kb/s.

I thought upload was the speed you alloted to seeding. Is there any other benefit to using a higher upload speed? Does it improve your download speed?
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sturmvogel @ 7th Aug 01:56PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

said by goody two :

Pay cuts are just that, not delays, as employees won't get back the reduced amount.

The reality is that in general poorly performing employees get warnings and eventually get fired if improvements are not made.
Your two paragraphs contradict each other.
--
Treason is a matter of dates

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anon @ 7th Aug 02:21PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

There's no contradiction at all between the two paragraphs, and I've been in management position in commercial lending for 20 years where I've dealt with plenty of different commercial clients. I've worked at banks and finance companies and have have to give warnings to employees who have had poor performance and let go the ones who didn't. Pay cuts were not given, since employees should be given an opportunity to improve. If they can't improve, pay cuts won't cover the deficiencies; instead, you hire other people who can perform to replace the ones who aren't.


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italiansmoke @ 7th Aug 02:25PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections



reply to NormanS:
I have my torrent upload speed set at 15kb/s.

I thought upload was the speed you alloted to seeding. Is there any other benefit to using a higher upload speed? Does it improve your download speed?
reply
NormanS @ 7th Aug 02:54PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

said by italiansmoke :

I have my torrent upload speed set at 15kb/s.
That should work for alleviating surfing issues.
I thought upload was the speed you alloted to seeding. Is there any other benefit to using a higher upload speed? Does it improve your download speed?
I have never noticed any improvement in download speed with higher upload; but I have only used public trackers, and I suspect that any benefit would only apply to private trackers.

My nominal DSL upload is 512kbps, but there is a 15% overhead, so actual speed is closer to 425kbps. AT&T does not "overprovision", as some other ISPs do. Because of my nominal UL, uTorrent pegs my max upload at 43kB/s. By rough calculation, I estimate that it is closer to 39kB/s. Because saturating the upload bandwidth has an adverse affect on other Internet activity, it is usually advisable to throttle upload instead of running at the maximum. However, most of the adverse effects are due to packet contention. Delaying outbound ACK packets, which happens on a saturated upload, slows web surfing, and the like.

My modem, as I have stated, reportedly prioritizes outbound ACK packets, over other outbound packets, which would also alleviate the effects of upload congestion. And, in addition, my D-Link DIR-655 has some kind of QoS algorithm. The result is that I don't suffer the ill effects of upload saturation as severely as would be the case with no QoS of any kind.

Other than completing the unity ratio expected of BT P2P faster, I can't think of any reason for faster upload. I think funchords has suggested that, even for DSL connections, which are better able to handle P2P bandwidth demand, that throttling back is "kinder" to the network. While the 29kB/s that I am using is probably a killer on a cable plant, it doesn't seem so hard on DSL. However, if funchords were to suggest that I should cut back to 66% (26kB/s), instead of my current 75% (29kB/s), I'd do it. As a member of a larger community, I should minimize any adverse impact my activity would have on other members of the community.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

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Pizz @ 7th Aug 03:04PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

I would just personally switch over to DSL if you plan on doing alot of P2P or Torrent traffic. It's been made perfectly clear by MSOs - that no way in hell we're going to accommodate those type of users on it's network.

Maybe when docsis 3.0 hits - but currently, dont use P2P and Torrent sites so much.
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funchords @ 7th Aug 04:59PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

said by italiansmoke :

I have my torrent upload speed set at 15kb/s.

I thought upload was the speed you alloted to seeding. Is there any other benefit to using a higher upload speed? Does it improve your download speed?
Yes. The BitTorrent is a tit-for-tat protocol that links the best sharers (uploaders) together for the fastest transfers. If you're only running 1 torrent at a time, 15 KB/s is plenty. I wouldn't run more than 2 torrents at a time on a Comcast connection, and with 2 torrents you'd want to set your upload limit to around 30 KB/s (explanation: it works out to 3 slots per upload, 5 KB/s per slot). During prime-time, I would (and did) run only 1 torrent at 15 KB/s.
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funchords @ 7th Aug 05:12PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

Good grief! Are there cross-linked topics somewhere or has this "delay the payments" joke actually spun this far off-topic?
reply
anon @ 7th Aug 05:21PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

Psst. I was being just as humorous as Sturm was. But enough has been said.
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ajax25 @ 15th Aug 10:30AM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

said by ajax25 :

As of last night 9 downloaders at 90.7%. Nothing moving.
I was able to connect to one of the seeders after
stopping and restarting the torrent. Only 16K of
data got through, but I was able to confirm that that
seeder was on comcast.
This baby is still hanging at around 95%. Still two
seeders, one I know is comcast.

There is also a second torrent hung in the upper 90%
range, have not been able to see the seeder for that one.
If the seeder does connect they get kicked very fast.
I'm in NJ if that makes any difference.
reply
abcstore @ 9th Sep 05:20PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

said by NormanS :

said by italiansmoke :

I have my torrent upload speed set at 15kb/s.
That should work for alleviating surfing issues.
Having upload set to 28_k_bit on a 8/2Mbit pipe kills the whole thing almost completely. No ping, no DNS, no surfing.

ABC
reply
funchords @ 9th Sep 05:30PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

said by abcstore :

Having upload set to 28_k_bit on a 8/2Mbit pipe kills the whole thing almost completely. No ping, no DNS, no surfing.
Are you working through a router? If so, try disabling DHT in your P2P client and close it. Reset your router (power off and on), wait for a few moments, then restart your bittorrent client.

If that helps, your router cannot handle the high number of connections that DHT creates. Turning DHT off shouldn't affect you badly, as DHT's main purpose is to function as a backup tracker.
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NormanS @ 9th Sep 05:35PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

said by abcstore :

Having upload set to 28_k_bit on a 8/2Mbit pipe kills the whole thing almost completely. No ping, no DNS, no surfing.
I've only got 3/0.5 Mb/s, but letting the upload run at 39 kB/s (yes, that's Bytes!) does not hurt DNS, or surfing. Ping only suffers slightly. The worst effect is on streaming video (gets very choppy).

It helps that the router (D-Link DIR-655) does QoS, and the DSL modem (SpeedStream 4100) performs ACK packet prioritization.

P.S. I normally run the upload throttled back to 29 kB/s.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

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abcstore @ 10th Sep 12:39PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

My router is a FreeBSD handling multiple T1s and MPLS lines. 6/2Mbit cable line is a tiny fraction of what's going on.
At times you can seed and browse but 99% of the time seeding kills everything (through cable).

ABC
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funchords @ 10th Sep 12:49PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

Do your packets go through Warrenton? (can you check via traceroute?)

If so, it is very, very important that you report this to Comcast tech support and let them know that you are in their Network Management test market. Please let me know.

See »www.comcast.net/terms/network/ for (sketchy) details.

Test market or no, your results are pretty surprising. So is it any amount of seeding that kills everything? Can you turn it down to 5 KB/s (40 kbps) or 1 KB/s (8 kbps) and still be prevented?
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
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abcstore @ 10th Sep 02:17PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

said by funchords :

Do your packets go through Warrenton? (can you check via traceroute?)

If so, it is very, very important that you report this to Comcast tech support and let them know that you are in their Network Management test market. Please let me know.

See »www.comcast.net/terms/network/ for (sketchy) details.

Test market or no, your results are pretty surprising. So is it any amount of seeding that kills everything? Can you turn it down to 5 KB/s (40 kbps) or 1 KB/s (8 kbps) and still be prevented?

3 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms ge-3-1-ur01.chesterfield.va.richmond.comcast.net [68.86.17 4.185]
4 4 ms 6 ms 6 ms te-1-2-ar01.chesterfield.va.richmond.comcast.net [68.86.17 2.70]
5 13 ms 12 ms 13 ms te-4-3-cr01.charlotte.nc.cbone.comcast.net [68.86.72.133]
6 19 ms 15 ms 17 ms te-1-1-cr01.richmond.va.cbone.comcast.net [68.86.68.110]
7 15 ms 17 ms 16 ms te-1-1-cr01.mclean.va.cbone.comcast.net [68.86.68.114]
8 18 ms 20 ms 20 ms te-4-2-ar01.newcastle.de.bo.comcast.net [68.86.72.162]
9 21 ms 23 ms 21 ms te-1-1-ar02.ndceast.pa.bo.comcast.net [68.86.228.102]
10 22 ms 21 ms 20 ms te-4-1-ur02.ndceast.pa.bo.comcast.net [68.86.134.49]
11 21 ms 21 ms 21 ms 68.87.98.12
12 20 ms 21 ms 19 ms 68.87.60.144


Seeding at 5Kb/s I can't even reply to this thread... Neither could I open the link you provided.

ABC

P.S. Boy, am I glad FIOS finally got to my house! 15Mbit and no throttling

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funchords @ 10th Sep 03:17PM:
Re: Comcast is using Sandvine to manage P2P Connections

You are about 100 miles from Warrenton ... hmmm, no explanation.

I'm wondering if something in the FreeBSD setup might be squelching you -- maybe a MPLS rule or a NAT table limitation working against you? Can you plug directly into the cable modem and test?

What Comcast is doing in most areas (the non-trial areas) should have no effect on DNS or web surfing. It would kill seeding, however, by throwing TCP RST packets at your connections.
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