[WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

[WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity
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HiVolt @ 16th Sep 01:23PM:
[WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

I've got a new 8 Core 2.8 Xeon Mac Pro here at work for a week or so now. Of course I loaded BOINC on it, and I expected it to crunch like a horse... However, something's not right...

Whenever I start Boinc, the CPU usage spikes to full on all 8 cores, but 5 seconds later it drops and settles to 84-85%. I've deleted, reinstalled BOINC, and it continues to do this. The work units take a very long time per core. There is no other process eating up any CPU time. I have another Mac Pro except it'a 4-core, and it purrs along fine at full cpu load.

Attached are some screenshots.

Any help would be appreciated.
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Usage when first started
Usage after 5 seconds running
How long it takes per WU
CPU Benchmark
Machine Specs

lilhurricane @ 16th Sep 01:45PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

I'd like to say maybe the project assumes you have a strong beast of a computer & so is sending you the hardest work units to find cures...but I'm sure that's not it :D

I'm not familiar w/ Macs so I can't help..maybe we have a member that uses one that can assist?

Congrats on your new machine, Martin :)
I'm sure there's a reason & you'll find it.

... can always ask at WCG forums as well (in Boinc Support), if no one here figures it out

»www.worldcommunitygrid.org/forum···forum=83

Edit: maybe ajeb can help?
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Ray422 @ 16th Sep 02:00PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

Sounds like some kinda throttling, yes?

Just some food for thought...

Does the cpu speed reduce simultaneously with the cpu percentage? Any change in temperature? Any change in multiplier?
--Disable intel speedstep?

I know nothing about a mac, does it have an internal bios throttle like...
Biostar has....cool & quiet
Gigabyte has....C1e (enhanced halt)
Asus has....Same, I think (I would have to look)

I think TD member Ajeb has that same machine, perhaps he can help?

EDIT: Another thought. Could that machine have defaulted to a boinc setting that allows a lesser cpu percentage. I have had that happen to me before. You might check the maximum CPU percentage usage setting in wcg/boinc?
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Things I like - Team Discovery - Quads©3.4ghz - Strawberry Ice cream

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HiVolt @ 16th Sep 02:20PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

The Mac has no configurable options like PC boards do... I have done a video encoding test and all 8 cores are fully utilized, so it's not something related to the machine.

I have checked BOINC throttling in the options, and it's set to use 100% cpu and all the processor cores.
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HiVolt @ 16th Sep 02:23PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

I've PM'd ajeb, hopefully he has a couple of minutes to take a look.

Thanks!
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Dersgniw @ 16th Sep 02:53PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

said by HiVolt :

I have checked BOINC throttling in the options, and it's set to use 100% cpu and all the processor cores.

Checked it on the client options (not the website), right?
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I Smell Cures! -- Our Hope
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HiVolt @ 16th Sep 03:31PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

said by Dersgniw :

said by HiVolt :

I have checked BOINC throttling in the options, and it's set to use 100% cpu and all the processor cores.

Checked it on the client options (not the website), right?

Yep! I'm somehow thinking the BOINC version for Mac is not that 8-core friendly... on the 4-core Mac running the exact same OS it works perfectly.
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glennaxl @ 16th Sep 03:51PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

Have you checked this?
System Prefs
->Energy Saver
->Options
->Processor Performance

It should be set to "Highest".
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HiVolt @ 16th Sep 07:46PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

said by glennaxl :

Have you checked this?
System Prefs
->Energy Saver
->Options
->Processor Performance

It should be set to "Highest".

Pretty sure I did, but I don't think there is such an option on a Mac Pro, only on the laptops or imacs/minis.

I'll double check tomorrow though.
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ajeb @ 17th Sep 10:54AM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

Hey,
I've had my MAC PRO for about a month.

I'm running near 100% on all eight cores.

Check your energy saving panel. WCG runs at a very low priority. Just running BOINC in not enough to keep the computer from going to sleep, so make sure the computer is in "never" going to sleep and uncheck "Put hard drives to sleep.."

The hard drive thing was slowing me down when I started up.

I'm also running a different version of BOINC than you. I'm still on 5.10.45, I always wait a bit to upgrade to make sure the bugs are worked out.

Hope that helps. FYI..Getting about a 4300 RAC on the machine and that spec is still climbing.
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lilhurricane @ 17th Sep 11:25AM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

Great suggestions everyone!

And thanks glennaxl & ajeb :)

..your "things to check" on Macs are now added to our FAQ

»Team Discovery WCG BOINC FAQ »[Macs] How to Make Sure You're Running at Peak Efficiency

Edit: Let me know if there's anything else
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HiVolt @ 17th Sep 11:55AM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

Thanks... I already had the sleep settings disabled, and it doesn't seem to make a difference if they are on or off here.

Anyway, I just ran Activity Monitor and it seems that at the exact time the CPU load drops to from 100 to 85, the System percentage goes up. I dont know what that means though.

Attached is the graph. Green is User %, Red is System %.
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Dogfather @ 17th Sep 12:29PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

I'm assuming you've shown yourself "all processes" and not just "my processes" to see if something else is taking up the other 15%.

Also what happens if you open a 9th crunching instance (if you can do such a thing)?

There is also uncertainty principle in monitoring this usage but it shouldn't be anywhere near 15%. In my quad activity monitor for example takes 1.5% typically.

ajeb @ 17th Sep 01:08PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

Skeedatl is right...that 15% is going somewhere into the system. You should be able to find in all processes. There was a huge system update just released..is it downloading in background? Though I can't see that taking up that much cpu.
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HiVolt @ 17th Sep 02:48PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

This happened before the 10.5.5 also. I have looked under All Processes, and I don't see it. Here's a screenshot.
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HiVolt @ 17th Sep 02:52PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

And here's output from "top" in terminal.

Processes:  73 total, 10 running, 2 stuck, 61 sleeping... 303 threads                                                          14:50:10Load Avg:  7.25,  7.23,  7.46    CPU usage: 22.09% user, 65.45% sys, 12.46% idleSharedLibs: num =    8, resident =   84M code,  248K data, 5192K linkedit.MemRegions: num =  8399, resident =  483M +   18M private,  158M shared.PhysMem:  519M wired,  847M active,   63M inactive, 1451M used, 4693M free.VM: 8203M + 371M   64983(0) pageins, 0(0) pageouts   PID COMMAND      %CPU   TIME   #TH #PRTS #MREGS RPRVT  RSHRD  RSIZE  VSIZE 2682 top          5.5%  0:06.96   1    18     29 1964K   188K  2560K    18M 2673 bash         0.0%  0:00.01   1    14     19  268K   184K   916K    18M 2672 login        0.0%  0:00.02   1    17     55  284K   228K  1056K    19M 2671 Terminal     1.2%  0:03.65   3   100    175 3148K    17M    13M   367M  2648 Preview      0.0%  0:00.84  13   141    259 8364K    21M    14M   390M 2597 cupsd        0.0%  0:00.03   2    30     30  484K   228K  1400K    19M 2571 mdworker     0.0%  0:00.44   4    72     52 1092K  8468K  4084K    34M 2570 mdworker     0.0%  0:00.16   3    51     32  700K  9724K  2580K    33M 2097 LKDCHelper   0.0%  0:00.01   1    18     23  204K   184K   860K    19M 1330 wcg_hcc1_i  84.8%  2:31:52   2    15     92   37M+ 2076K    37M+   57M  1329 wcg_hcc1_i  84.6%  2:31:42   2    15    100   38M+ 2076K    39M+   59M+ 1328 wcg_hcc1_i  85.0%  2:31:46   2    15    112   41M- 2076K    42M+   62M+ 1327 wcg_hcc1_i  84.6%  2:31:46   2    15    128   45M+ 2076K    46M+   66M+ 1326 wcg_hcc1_i  84.5%  2:31:37   2    15    128   45M  2076K    46M+   66M  1325 wcg_hcc1_i  85.0%  2:31:41   2    15    128   45M- 2076K    46M+   66M  1324 wcg_hcc1_i  84.8%  2:31:50   2    15    128   45M- 2076K    46M-   66M- 1323 wcg_hcc1_i  84.9%  2:31:51   2    15    128   45M- 2076K    46M+   66M+ 1319 boinc        0.1%  0:16.97   1    19     42 3924K   252K  6348K    21M 1317 BOINCManag   0.5%  1:05.53   1    77    170 7432K    23M    17M   373M   153 AppleSpell   0.0%  0:00.06   1    29     31  592K  8600K  2948K    34M  149 BBNotifica   0.0%  0:00.40   9    92    149 2452K    14M  6216K   328M  143 TeamViewer   0.1%  0:19.02   5    88    151 3928K    11M    11M   355M  141 Mail         0.1%  5:44.25  30   291    609   23M    43M    54M   454M   138 usbmuxd      0.0%  0:00.00   2    21     26  204K   184K   700K    19M  137 Stickies     0.0%  0:01.34   1    77    163 2684K    16M  7372K   351M  136 iTunesHelp   0.0%  0:00.04   2    53     47  540K  3156K  2360K   281M  133 Google Upd   0.0%  0:00.07   1    56     38  500K  7260K  2444K   290M  128 pboard       0.0%  0:00.00   1    15     23  152K   184K   588K    19M  126 Finder       0.0%  0:07.75   6   183    255 5504K    31M    16M   386M   125 SystemUISe   0.3%  0:38.68  13   282    387 6100K    20M    12M   366M  124 ATSServer    0.0%  0:05.66   2    98    952 1420K  7664K  7584K   130M   123 Dock         0.0%  0:06.38   3   131    353 3684K    45M    15M   398M  122 coreaudiod   0.0%  0:00.32   2   140     51 1124K  1268K  2152K    20M  119 UserEventA   0.0%  0:00.18   2   153     84  708K  2896K  2172K    21M  118 Spotlight    0.0%  0:00.27   8    85     96 3092K  9896K  6080K   296M  116 AppleVNCSe   0.0%  0:00.17   2    60     40 2120K  5244K  3960K   282M  113 AirPort Ba   0.0%  0:00.19   1    58    114 2144K    10M  4512K   323M  112 GoogleSoft   0.0%  0:00.20   1    58     52 2192K  9812K  4760K   291M  108 launchd      0.0%  0:02.42   3   182     25  212K   296K   548K    18M  105 VNCPrivile   0.0%  0:00.00   1    16     24  148K   188K   624K    19M   92 pvsnatd      0.0%  0:01.69   3    26     28  200K   184K   528K    21M   79 llipd        0.0%  0:05.15   1     8     17   84K   184K   220K    18M   71 racoon       0.0%  0:00.06   1    14     27  228K   224K  1036K    18M   66 blued        0.0%  0:00.12   1    49     34  540K  5216K  1964K    28M   64 ioupsd       0.0%  0:00.88   1    30     23  404K   184K  1056K    18M   63 WindowServ   0.9%  3:16.49  11   250    897 5228K    42M    53M   406M    58 coreservic   0.0%  0:01.94   2   165    129 1760K    19M    18M    41M   51 krb5kdc      0.0%  0:00.02   1    17     43  476K   188K  1424K    18M   46 socketfilt   0.0%  0:00.47   3    35     25  608K   224K  1572K    18M   45 autofsd      0.0%  0:00.00   1    21     18  148K   184K   672K    18M   41 diskarbitr   0.0%  0:00.47   1   129     18  376K   184K  1000K    18M   39 dynamic_pa   0.0%  0:00.02   1    17     20  176K   184K   712K    18M   37 fseventsd    0.0%  0:01.26  10    77     51 1012K   184K  1540K    23M   36 hidd         0.0%  0:00.00   2    28     20  124K   192K   604K    18M   34 kdcmond      0.0%  0:01.31   2    24     19  264K   184K  1024K    18M   33 KernelEven   0.0%  0:00.00   2    20     19  160K   184K   652K    18M   32 loginwindo   0.0%  0:00.48   3   200    125 1660K    16M  5648K   299M   31 mds          0.0%  0:13.37  17   268    252   14M  8600K    16M    75M    30 RFBRegiste   0.0%  0:00.01   1    16     22  208K   184K  1060K    19M   26 SystemStar   0.0%  0:00.00   1    20     18  152K   184K   668K    18M   25 update       0.0%  0:07.21   1    13     17   76K   184K   284K    17M   24 ntpd         0.0%  0:01.25   1    15     19  196K   184K   836K    18M   21 securityd    0.0%  0:00.30   3   103     37  748K   224K  2040K    20M   18 launchd      0.0%  0:02.00   3    25     24  132K   296K   464K    18M   16 mDNSRespon   0.0%  0:01.24   2    41     30 1396K   224K  2368K    20M   15 distnoted    0.0%  0:01.93   1    52     18  296K   184K   776K    18M   14 configd      0.0%  0:09.79   3   169     71  640K   256K  1868K    19M   13 syslogd      0.0%  0:01.81   4    37     28  224K   188K   516K    19M   12 notifyd      0.0%  0:00.33   2   150     20  224K   188K   480K    18M   11 DirectoryS   0.0%  0:02.32   5    65     36 1724K   188K  3400K    21M    10 kextd        0.0%  0:00.46   2    32     19  644K   184K  1252K    18M    1 launchd      0.0%  0:02.35   3   103     25  236K   296K   568K    19M    0 kernel_tas   0.8%  6:47.01  65     2    750   18M      0   124M   358M

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bbarrera @ 17th Sep 03:15PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

Next time run "top -o cpu" to sort highest CPU processes first.

Might want to check the 'nice' level of BOINC client and renice if possible. I've never understood the Mac OS X process scheduler, and there is a website with some good info (believe it is Amit Singh of Google).
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HiVolt @ 17th Sep 04:42PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

said by bbarrera :

Might want to check the 'nice' level of BOINC client and renice if possible. I've never understood the Mac OS X process scheduler, and there is a website with some good info (believe it is Amit Singh of Google).

Can you explain how do I go about doing that?
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Dogfather @ 17th Sep 04:54PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

»www.macosxhints.com/article.php?···85034927

I've also see a few utilities in my Google search like BeNicer »www.versiontracker.com/dyn/morei···sx/16534 that claim to make the process a bit quicker.

EDIT - Just toyed with BeNicer and it may not like Leo...I get some errors and VT showed it only supported Tiger and earlier.
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ajeb @ 17th Sep 08:53PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

This can't be this hard...lol.

I'm running 99.3% to 100% on all eight cores. My process list looks the same as yours. The only thing seems to be that I'm using an older version of BOINC.
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HiVolt @ 17th Sep 09:01PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

said by ajeb :

This can't be this hard...lol.

I'm running 99.3% to 100% on all eight cores. My process list looks the same as yours. The only thing seems to be that I'm using an older version of BOINC.

I was running the same version of BOINC before, it was doing the same thing, so I downloaded the latest...

Now, I've been thinking a bit... When I got this new 8-Core Mac Pro, I was upgrading my main workstation from a 4-Core Mac Pro that was moved to another part of the office... Now, All I did was move the hard drive over, it booted right up and I didn't think anything of it. Everything else has been working fine.

Could the Kernel or something else not be handling the 8-cores properly because of this, and not letting a low priority process like BOINC access 100% of the cores when the system is idle?

Could an archive & install from the DVD's that came with the 8-Core (10.5.4) do the trick perhaps?
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Dogfather @ 17th Sep 11:14PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

Try downloading the combo update for 10.5.5 which just came out yesterday. Perhaps there will be some magic in there for ya.
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ajeb @ 18th Sep 02:33AM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

Your using all cores so the system knows they're there. I can't see why the kernel would be written to handle them all.

How about the EFI firmware update?

»support.apple.com/kb/HT1237

Repair permission?

»www.macworld.com/article/52220/2···ons.html

Just throwing out things now...lol.

I've been reading message boards for other projects using MAC and compiled a list of the stupid things.

Are you using local preferences or web preferences? Things seem to run better for most with setting the preferences on the website of the project not locally. I set that up using the custom option of device profile on the WCG website. I have two profiles, one for my MAC, the other for my PCs. I found that Protein folding took forever to run and blocked it running on the MAC.

Screen saver set to never?
Run always in activity pull down?

I'll keep looking.
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jwersan @ 18th Sep 12:14PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

The MAC OS is based on UNIX, UNIX has an automatic process that will "nice" down any long running processes to stop them from taking over all processing, thus starving out other processes.

By "nice" I mean that the system will assign a lower priority to the process.

In UNIX all you would have to do is re-nice the process to a -1 and it would be ignored by the system.

Since I am NOT familiar with the MAC OS, I have no clue how you might change the process priority...

I hope this helps...
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HiVolt @ 18th Sep 12:16PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

What i'll do when I have some free time is to install a fresh OS copy on a spare hard drive... I have a feeling it's got something to do with me just transferring the hard drive from the old Mac Pro.
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HiVolt @ 23rd Sep 10:35AM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

Well, I had some free time today at work so I installed a clean copy of Leopard 10.5.4 (that came with the new Mac Pro). After installation, the first thing I did was Install Boinc...

After running the test benchmarks at 100% on all 8 cores, once all 8 work units of HCC populated the spots, it dropped down from 100% to 85%.

I'm at a loss for words. Is this beast of a machine simply not cut out for crunching? I don't get it...

Edit: I also have XP Pro installed on this machine, and I just rebooted into it and installed Boinc, and it's happily crunching on all 8 cores. WTF is wrong with the Mac version?
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Dersgniw @ 23rd Sep 11:42AM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

Like glennaxl suggested, all a search turns up for me is:

System Prefs
->Energy Saver
->Options
->Processor Performance

What happens when you set BOINC to only use 85%? What about 50%? What happens when you tell it to only use 4 cores?
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HiVolt @ 23rd Sep 11:46AM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

said by Dersgniw :

Like glennaxl suggested, all a search turns up for me is:

System Prefs
->Energy Saver
->Options
->Processor Performance

What happens when you set BOINC to only use 85%? What about 50%? What happens when you tell it to only use 4 cores?

There is no processor performance settings on the Mac Pro in the Energy Saver preferences.

When I set only 4 cores to crunch, they operate at 96%. When I set the cores to operate at 50%, they operate at 43%.

I tried both the 5.10.45 client from WCG site as well as the latest 6.2.18 from Boinc site directly. Both behave identical.
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Dersgniw @ 23rd Sep 11:56AM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

Have you tried HPF2 or any other project just to see if it's specifically the HCC project?
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HiVolt @ 23rd Sep 12:27PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

said by Dersgniw :

Have you tried HPF2 or any other project just to see if it's specifically the HCC project?

Good idea, I tried creating a profile with HPF2 only and assigned it to the machine. I reset the project and it only downloaded HCC WU's.

Does it take some time to kick in?
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GO LEAFS GO!
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Dersgniw @ 23rd Sep 12:36PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

You'd have to abort or suspend your WU's then get an update.
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HiVolt @ 23rd Sep 12:42PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

said by Dersgniw :

You'd have to abort or suspend your WU's then get an update.

I reset the project, it cleared & downloaded new ones... isnt that the same thing?
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GO LEAFS GO!
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HiVolt @ 23rd Sep 12:55PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle! It's HCC that's screwy on this Mac. Once HPF2's loaded up they are crunching at full capacity!

Thanks a lot for the suggestion, Brian!!! I would never have guessed it.
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GO LEAFS GO!

lilhurricane @ 23rd Sep 01:58PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

said by HiVolt :

Well I'll be a JoJo's uncle! It's HCC that's screwy on this Mac. Once HPF2's loaded up they are crunching at full capacity!

Neat-o (I think) :hmm: :D

Well..we are both projects, Martin...so w00t :D

»Team Discovery WCG BOINC FAQ »HPF2, Help Conquer Cancer? Which one Should I Choose?
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Dersgniw @ 23rd Sep 01:58PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

You should post a link to this at the HCC forum - »www.worldcommunitygrid.org/forum···orum=301 - if you don't want to, I can.
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HiVolt @ 23rd Sep 02:25PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

If you can post it there Brian that would be great. I don't have an account there.
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GO LEAFS GO!
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lilhurricane @ 23rd Sep 02:28PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

said by HiVolt :

I don't have an account there.

*AHEM :P :D

»Team Discovery WCG BOINC FAQ »Signatures & How To Help Spread the Word
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Dersgniw @ 23rd Sep 03:59PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

»www.worldcommunitygrid.org/forum···ad=21979
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HiVolt @ 23rd Sep 05:48PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

said by lilhurricane :

said by HiVolt :

I don't have an account there.

*AHEM :P :D

My bad, I had an idiot moment there... I just realized that by having an account for crunching on WCG, it's also for their forums. :D

I replied to the thread Brian, thanks!
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ajeb @ 27th Sep 08:53AM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

Posting here for those following this thread as well as on WCG forum.

I switched over to all HCC units and was able to duplicate the 85% problem on my Mac Pro.
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lilhurricane @ 27th Sep 11:58AM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

Hmm.. I'd not checked back there in a bit.
Thanks Ajeb.

Off to look now. Hoping they are going to be addressing that?
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Dersgniw @ 28th Sep 08:32PM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

You would think they would have a slew of 8 core Xeon Macs beta testing this stuff. :) Thanks for following up.
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I Smell Cures! -- Our Hope
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HiVolt @ 29th Sep 09:08AM:
Re: [WCG] 8 Core Xeon not crunching at full capacity

Thanks for your testing, at least now we know it's HCC that's just not efficient to run on 8-core Macs. What a waste.

Sadly from the responses in the WCG forums they don't really know how to fix it and just suggest running other projects. Oh well, my 8-Core Mac Pro has been happily crunching HPF2's.
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GO LEAFS GO!
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