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PtownBubba
join:2005-12-18
Prophetstown, IL

PtownBubba

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Frontiernet DSL Speed Tests

I am in northern Illinois, 61277 area code. I have the fast residential DSL service,,, however it seems my DSL is slower that others in the area according to several different speed tests. I live a couple miles south of phone office,, the best d-load I have seen is 1600k,,,that is during the day, at night it is 600 to 800k. The fastest upload I have ever seen is 200k. Ok,, not super bad,,, but,,, a buddy lives a couple miles west of town ,, and his d-loads are 2500 to 3000k,,, and up loads run around 300k.

So,, if "distance' is a factor on DSL quality,, and us being about the same distance, but different directions from office ,,,speeds should be somewhat similar shouldn't they ? ?

Frontier has given me a different Siemens router,, SE567,, because I was also having constant connection drop outs all summer. I think I have a crappy wire,,, but F-tier says when they check I have a strong signal,,, but a couple hours after they leave,,, things go south ,,,, Any ideas please,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, going nuts !!!!

Smith6612
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North Tonawanda, NY
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Smith6612

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In your case it sounds like you're having the night time lagging issue that many people around this site seem to get from Frontier. It's probably being caused by a central office or an RT being out of bandwidth at night, or just overloaded routing equipment. Run a line quality test and post a speed test when the line is slow and I can tell you where the problem lies. I'm betting it will be at the CO or at the first hop in a trace route.

As for your signal strength, log into the SE567 while it is synced up, go to Gateway Health, choose Statistics, choose DSL and post up the information on that page. I'll be able to read it and tell you how good your signal is. Also, if you could tell us the connectivity rate, which is shown on the modem's first page, that'll be great.
PtownBubba
join:2005-12-18
Prophetstown, IL

4 edits

PtownBubba

Member



PPPoE 0/35

State: UP
Downstream Rate: 1024000
Upstream Rate: 192000
PtownBubba

1 edit

PtownBubba

Member

Line Test:

»/lineq ··· /2467599

Speed Test: 846k D-load 156k Up

My buddy who lives 2 miles from office to the west,, [I am 2 miles south of office],,,, just emailed his speed test results

2487k Download,,,,, 280k up
PtownBubba

PtownBubba

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2nd test:

»/lineq ··· /2467611
PtownBubba

PtownBubba

Member

3am tests,,,,,still no where close to my buddy's 8 pm speeds with the same ISP
844k down
154k up
Latency 28ms

»/lineq ··· /2467672

Smith6612
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Smith6612 to PtownBubba

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to PtownBubba
Thanks for all the info. I noticed in some of the line quality tests that there was packet loss and ping spikes, but by the looks if it you might have just been using the internet, but it could still be being caused by night time loads. Otherwise, in your case your slower speed is due to your distance. Your attenuation is 53.5dB, which shows that you are roughly 13,375ft of wire from your DSLAM. Frontier simply turned down your speeds to help maintain your signal to noise ratio to keep your line stable. Now, while 3Mbps is certainly doable at that distance, given your margins and attenuation the line will either resync often, or it won't sync at the full speed.

So really, at that sync rate which is the proper sync speed for the 1Mbps/128kbps provisioning from Frontier, you're expecting speeds peaking at 130-135KB/s download and 17KB/s upload. In kilobits, roughly 1,100Kbps download and 133kbps upload.

If you have a NID, and I am assuming you do, there should be some test jacks in that box in the customer access part of it (do not open Telco side!). If you are able to, take the modem out to where that box is and plug in the modem to the phone jack in there and take the line stats again, using twisted pair phone cable that is short. In some cases, should the house's wiring be degraded a bit the modem may see higher SNR values at the NID, possibly high enough to get your speed turned up. If you are able to do this, post up some new line stats plugged into that box.
PtownBubba
join:2005-12-18
Prophetstown, IL

1 edit

PtownBubba

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?ok NID what is that ?

I have a "dedicated" wire from the Frontier box to the computer [home run]. I do not use any phone jack filters, any filtering is done at the phone box. I "suppose" there is always a chance the wire from the box to computer has a problem, but really can't see how,,,,the Frontier tech check signal at the phone jack behind computer, said it was "good", whatever that means. I guess what annoys me is that my friend ,,who is the same distance from the office, but in a different direction and of course a different wire,, has a much better system. I can replace the wire from box to computer,,, that is all "I" can do I guess. I suppose all this could mean that his buried wire has less splices and band-aids then mine does or something. I am paying for the 1mbps program, maybe could save some money and just get the cheaper 768kbps program. Or go back to a wireless that I had before Frontier. That did work, just went with Frontier since it was handy, and it did used to work as well as the wireless. Thank you for all the info you offered, it is a great help in trying figure this out.

p.s one more set of tests,,, and I see my ip address changed again,,,, that is ok,,, but geez it now seems to change a few times every day,, instead of a once or twice a month. WHY so many IP address changes,, doesn't that mean there are many "drops" ,,, in order for the change to happen ? My ip has changed at least 10 times in 2 or 3 days.

sorry to rant,,,, going nuts !

»/lineq ··· /2467709



854 Dload
161 up
atigerman
join:2002-01-19
Tigerton, WI

atigerman

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You said you have a dedicated line from the outside box to your modem, but do you have any phones in the house or equipment that needs a phone line?

Also about the distance issue. You said that you and your friend are the same distance from the central office, but are you? Just because your both the same walking distance from each other doesn't mean the cable is the same distance.
PtownBubba
join:2005-12-18
Prophetstown, IL

PtownBubba

Member

When I say dedicated,,, the phone company calls it a home run. The wire goes from the phone box on the side of the house to only the computer. Yes,, there is another line from that same point to the house phones. There is a device in the phone company's tap point on the house,,, that separates the 2 phone lines, so I do NOT need any of the phone jack DSL filters for each phone.

As far as distances,,, here all phone lines buried follow the roads,, so no distances are as they say "as the crow flies".

Smith6612
MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY

Smith6612 to PtownBubba

MVM

to PtownBubba
In that case, the home run line itself is probably fine. If you can, get your buddy to see if he can give you his DSL stats from his line for comparison.
PtownBubba
join:2005-12-18
Prophetstown, IL

1 edit

PtownBubba

Member

more bad news,,,,,,,,my latest test

»/lineq ··· /2467981

These are my buddy's router numbers,, we think he is further away,,, must be better wire to him. Plus he has an old clunky router,, mine is a month old,,, ugh,,,,,,,,




Smith6612
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Smith6612 to PtownBubba

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Your friend does have higher attenuation so he is farther away. As you've guessed, probably better gauge wiring he has or his old modem is very tolerant to noise. As per his line quality check, looks like his modem's firewall got in the way hence the 100% packet loss at his line. Your line however seems to be getting some packet loss on it which is what is probably causing the speed shift you see from time to time. Now that people are home for the holidays, expect things to get a little worse if there is a bandwidth shortage in your area. AS per your speed getting boosted, it probably is doable, in which a call to Frontier or a visit to your central office is needed, but the SNR and errors may not look very good once the speed is boosted.
PtownBubba
join:2005-12-18
Prophetstown, IL

4 edits

PtownBubba

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Thank you for all your input. I guess we have beat this thing to death. I doubt there is much that can be done to improve things,, short of Frontier burying new wire. I am paying for a 1mbps service, they offer a 768kbps service for less money,that is all I seem to get. I may contact Essex/T6 Wireless and see if they can do me better. I have been fighting this Frontier thing since mid-summer,,, first it was "constant" drop outs of service,,,, now slow speeds. Frontier just sucks! I do not mind the ip address changes,,, just seems odd to have 2 or 3 changes a day.As you mentioned,, my speeds are slowed to keep it stable. So there fix for my service drops,,, was to strangle my speed. Did I mention Frontier sucks ? I guess Frontier is a good name for them,,,,, "horse-n'-buggy" equipment.

I did read elsewhere in this forum where a Frontier user in another part of the country got Frontier to install an Adrenaline line or signal booster or something,, I wonder if that is something for me ?? But if the wire is junk,,, the wire is junk..

And,,,, they did give me the new modem/router SE567,thinking that was perhaps causing the service drop outs, I still have the 6520,,, now that they slowed down my speed,, that 6520 could/would work just as good, ????? who knows ????

Thank you a ton for all your help !!

gr

Smith6612
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Smith6612

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Since you've stated you might want to move to a WISP, it doesn't hurt to mess with the Frontier line and try out things with your older modem and such. An AdrenaLine unit would certainly help your line out a bit though considering those things do expand DSL out a little farther than it can normally go. Not sure how willing Frontier will be to install one of those though unless you're too far for DSL in the first place. As far as the dropouts, Frontier is only able to do so much. Sure, at your attenuation you should be able to hold the 1Mbps speed without issues, but at that combination of distance and wire gauge you're at (which is what the attenuation measures basically), that's where holding the 3Mbps speeds can get a little troublesome. It's natural things that happen with DSL and it is all based on distance and the quality of the copper plant in your area, as well as what ADSL technology Frontier is using.
PtownBubba
join:2005-12-18
Prophetstown, IL

PtownBubba

Member

Good news,,,,, maybe,,

I contacted Frontier,,the Frontier guy has something he wants to try next week. So ,,, maybe,,, there could be something that can be done,,,, he did say I was 18000 feet from office,,, so not sure how far I am ,,, is there a way for me the user to calculate that ? via the numbers from the line test or router info ?

Smith6612
MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY

1 edit

Smith6612

MVM

Typically you can get a ballpark estimate of your distance by taking your attenuation and multiplying it by 250. Otherwise, let us know how that goes.
Ptown LT
join:2008-12-23
Prophetstown, IL

Ptown LT

Member

Been working with Bubba on his speed,,,,,,I am the friend outside of town, The phone Co. said he is 18000 ft from station, which changes his formula to Atten. X 336.5

Smith6612
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Smith6612

MVM

That might be the case. I've always found attenuation x 250 to be very reliable in terms of estimating the distance. It's worked twice for me, on both of the DSL lines I'm on. Typically telephone/DSL providers will say 18,000ft of wire if they don't know your exact length or don't bother to look it up. The best way to know how long your line is, is to find a field tech who knows your area well. Since the DSL lines I'm on are basically almost direct runs with one turn and two miles to get to the exchange, both connections lay at 10,000ft roughly. I was able to find out the length of my Verizon connection by asking a field tech. The Frontier connection was obvious; follow the wires from the CO to the house.
PtownBubba
join:2005-12-18
Prophetstown, IL

PtownBubba

Member

WooHoo,,,

Frontier guy was here today,,, did some extra effort,, now seeing constant numbers like this:

Download Speed: 2188 kbps (273.5 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 270 kbps (33.8 KB/sec transfer rate)
Wednesday, December 31, 2008 11:32:01 AM

way better than the 800-900 d-load 160 upload speeds I was maxed out at foe months.

He said to test it a few days,,, if it stays stable,,, he may be able to turn it up higher !!!!!! He also mentioned if the new upload was fast enough,,,, does that mean ,,that can be adjusted without affecting d-load speeds ???

Smith6612
MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY

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Smith6612 to PtownBubba

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to PtownBubba
Congrats The upload can be adjusted without affecting the download as it's on a separate frequency on the line.
older dog
Premium Member
join:2005-06-09

older dog

Premium Member

said by Smith6612:

Congrats The upload can be adjusted without affecting the download as it's on a separate frequency on the line.
True but Frontier has a habit of only doing it with set tiers which are only raised or lowered together.
Even had a tech tell me that they could not be raised or lowered separately.

I have no idea why they do it this way.
PtownBubba
join:2005-12-18
Prophetstown, IL

PtownBubba

Member

ok,,, like I said,,,my Frontier guy said to let him know how it worked the next few days, and if all was well,,, he would try to turn it up faster.

For online gaming, and even small online game "hosting",, which I have done in the past,,, what would be a good balance,,, or should I just tell Frontier to open the throttle and see where the uploads go ?

Others here with decent stuff, with Frontier hit 3000k dloads,,, 300 plus ups.

And,,,,I may change "my" wire [home run] from the Frontier Box,, to my pc. It is "simple" 4c bell wire. 20awg,,,,,,not like CAT5 cable. I always was thinking bigger wire was better,,,but maybe not for DSL ????? Smaller awg Cat5 wire, may be better than ole' copper bell wire. ??? Anything I can do to keep speed AND stability,, I will do.

Smith6612
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Smith6612

MVM

I've heard that DSL loves CAT5 cabling, but 24-gauge wiring, which is what most telephone companies use up on the poles will work as well. Make sure if anything that whatever you decide to use is twisted pair, as it will keep the noise from coming in. I've heard that DSL works better on the thicker wires, so if anything stick with the 20 gauge if you can.

As for uncapping the modem, it wouldn't hurt to see if the tech will uncap it so that you can see a general idea of where your line is sitting at in terms of speed vs. stability.
PtownBubba
join:2005-12-18
Prophetstown, IL

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PtownBubba

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So to start fresh,, should I get a piece of Cat 5e cable without any ends, use that for the home run wire,,, and get rid of the bell wire ? My concern is the the Cat5e wire is a smaller size [24awg] than what I am using now,, but what I am using now is not twisted,,, so,,, bottom line,,,, smaller awg twisted ,, or larger awg straight,, what is the best to do ?

If I could get Cat 5e cable,,, with a regular RJ-11 plug on one end , that would plug into the Speedstream Router, and the other end I could wire direct into the Frontier box,, eliminate a connection point that way. I can not find Cat5e cable with RJ 11 ends ,,,,,

I would think that if a guy was to parallel the first pair with another pair in order to get a larger conductor size could cause problems, since this is DSL not just current flow.
older dog
Premium Member
join:2005-06-09

older dog

Premium Member

What I was told by the repair techs is that unless the home wiring is seriously messed up or you have some major interference source in your home that the problem is almost always on Frontiers end. Those 50 or so feet of wiring on your end are insignificant compared to the miles of wire hanging out in the weather leading up to your home.

You can verify this by plugging the modem directly in to the NID on the outside of your home/ apartment. If the errors and signal strength remain the same your home wiring is fine.
PtownBubba
join:2005-12-18
Prophetstown, IL

1 edit

PtownBubba

Member

Thanks dog,,,, I got my speeds now around 2m download,, super ,, but I could get even faster,,,, maybe. Just did not my stuff to hamper anything Frontier did for me. I can get a piece of wire,, the so-called "correct" Cat 5e for less that 20 bucks,,, but maybe by some odd,, back door,, accidental,, Rube Goldberg,, reason, my ole' bell wire works better than the "proper" wire. All our phone wires are buried here,,, makes you wonder,,,,, if the home owner needs special twisted wire,,, but the "old" Frontier wire in the ground that has been chewed on by varmits,,, hit by backhoes, and fence posts, is the proper DSL quality,,, tight,,,, twisted,,, wire. ???

Smith6612
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Smith6612 to PtownBubba

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Basically, the thicker wire you can get, such as the 20 gauge wire where it has tight twists in the pair should work perfectly fine for the DSL. But basically, don't go past 24 gauge wiring. Also to note if Frontier has any 26-gauge wiring on your line, that will add more noise to the line as well. DSL works better on the thicker wire.
plat2on1
join:2002-08-21
Hopewell Junction, NY

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to PtownBubba
so what do your line stats look like now
PtownBubba
join:2005-12-18
Prophetstown, IL

PtownBubba

Member

Well,, things went bad again,,,, just like before,, constant service drops,,,, speeds are faster when online,,, but the constant drops and 4 to 10 IP address number changes per day are back.





The only thing "I" can do help, is to replace my wire from Frontier box, to pc with cat5e wire,,, Did Virus and Spyware scan,,, but could SOMETHING in my pc cause these dumps ????

ARGGGGGGGGGGHHH !!!!