DSLXtreme Experience So Far Page 3
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tt0ne @ 13th Jun 12:03AM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
I was reading that 52 is a "poor" - but maybe I'm missing something?
I guess my question is - do my numbers suggest I could get fastpath and does DSLxtreme offer it?
- Marco
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tt0ne @ 15th Jun 01:28AM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
Ok, I'm having a lot of flux on my line - but mainly my problem is with upload speeds. I have the 3000/768 package and my modem shows that I can get 768 - but I'm always just getting 640 or roughly around there. My upstream/downstream SNR ration is out of whack - why does that happen - and is there anything I can do about it and should I open a ticket?
Shouldn't I by syncing at 768 upstream when my modem says I can?
Here is what I'm showing right now:
Mode: G.DMT
Type: Interleave
Line Coding: Trellis On
Status: No Defect
Link Power State: L0
Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 16.3 10.0
Attenuation (dB): 51.0 31.5
Output Power (dBm): 19.5 11.9
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 5920 756
Rate (Kbps): 3360 640
K (number of bytes in DMT frame): 106 21
R (number of check bytes in RS code word): 16 0
S (RS code word size in DMT frame): 2 1
D (interleaver depth): 0 0
Delay (msec): 0 0
Super Frames: 420196 420194
Super Frame Errors: 599 2
RS Words: 14286694 0
RS Correctable Errors: 41588 2
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 10291 N/A
HEC Errors: 492 0
OCD Errors: 28 2
LCD Errors: 2 0
Total Cells: 56588030 0
Data Cells: 1696320 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
Total ES: 103 0
Total SES: 21 0
Total UAS: 79 0
---
Actually, right now it's showing 756 - weird - but anyways, shouldn't I be getting that atleast with the 3000/768 package?
- Marco
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dslx_gm @ 15th Jun 02:30PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
The lines are typically rate adaptive and will sync at the highest rate that they can hold without losing sync within the package limits. The highest on the downstream that Verizon will sync you at is 3360 and on the upstream is 864. It looks like the line is holding the full 3360 on the down but isn't able to obtain the full 768 on the up. It is therefore rate adapting down to 640 in order to hold sync.
Do you have access to the MPOE to plug the modem in there and see what the line will sync at?
Thanks
--
George
General Manager
DSL Extreme
Will work for reviews. ;)
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tt0ne @ 15th Jun 03:43PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
Hi George,
Yep, I do have access and I've solved the upstream/downstream ratio problem... I'm running cat-5e directly from the NID into the modem. I also replaced the old terminal that used "posts" to terminate on with a clean jack on the outside of the house.
As you can see - things do seem to be deteriorating slowly (based on the stats I've been posting since the Verizon dudes were here)... my max sync rates are getting lower. Latency has been excellent... But what do you think is happening? I'm not getting a very good upload speed at all - and that's super important to me since I do a lot of remove administration for work.
Here are the new stats (with modem plugged directly to NID):
ADSL Statistics
Mode: G.DMT
Type: Interleave
Line Coding: Trellis On
Status: No Defect
Link Power State: L0
Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 11.6 10.0
Attenuation (dB): 52.0 31.5
Output Power (dBm): 19.6 11.9
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 5152 716
Rate (Kbps): 3360 608
K (number of bytes in DMT frame): 106 20
R (number of check bytes in RS code word): 16 0
S (RS code word size in DMT frame): 2 1
D (interleaver depth): 0 0
Delay (msec): 0 0
Super Frames: 25724 25722
Super Frame Errors: 0 0
RS Words: 874616 0
RS Correctable Errors: 510 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 0 N/A
HEC Errors: 0 0
OCD Errors: 0 0
LCD Errors: 0 0
Total Cells: 20101390 0
Data Cells: 266243 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
Total ES: 1 0
Total SES: 0 0
Total UAS: 13 0
Thanks for your continued help in my quest for the ultimate DSLextreme experience :-)
- Marco
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dslx_gm @ 16th Jun 12:50AM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
Your SNR Margin on the upstream is slightly marginal which would likely be the cause of the DSLAM rate adapting down. usually when it is issues on the upstream it indicates a problem on the far side close to the home. Could there be anything at the house that could be generating noise on the line? Sometimes halogen lamps, dimmer switches etc.
Where those readings directly connected to the MPOE?
Thanks
--
George
General Manager
DSL Extreme
Will work for reviews. ;)
reply
tt0ne @ 16th Jun 03:27PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
Hi George,
I've phoned the other George (the dsl guy from Verizon who gave me his card) and have told him the problem - I left a message - hopefully he'll call back today.
Those readings are from a direct connect from modem -> NID.
If he doesn't call back, should I open up a ticket with you guys?
There shouldn't be any issue with lamps, power, etc...
I'll give it a couple more days - see if I can resolve the problem directly with Verizon myself - and if I can't get through to the proper channels I'll escalate it to you guys, cool?
- Marco
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dslx_gm @ 16th Jun 03:39PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
Yes, you would want to open a ticket with us directly. Under normal circumstances that would be the right course of action. Since this technician has been extremely helpful for you I am not opposed to seeing what he has to say though.
Thanks
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tt0ne @ 17th Jun 01:38AM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
Hi George,
I talked to him and he said the best course of action - since it may require some time and he needs to account for it - is to open a normal ticket - but he agreed - based on the readings I gave him there is something wrong...
So, I'll open up a ticket right now and I'll also link to this thread.
Cool?
Thanks for all the time you guys have helped me with this - totally appreciate it. I personally think the customer service at DSLExtreme is awesome!
- Marco
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tt0ne @ 17th Jun 04:12AM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
George,
I opened up a ticket. The ticket id is: 3556020
Hopefully we can track down why my upstream is so messed.
- Marco
PS: I've never been able to sync at 768 - the closet I've gotten is what you've seen reported on this thread.
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tt0ne @ 18th Jun 01:59PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
Ok, here is an update:
The Verizon guy who came out for the dslextreme ticket I opened just left.
Several things:
1. the cable bundle outside my house that runs in the ground is a problem spot he said - it fills up with moisture and Verizon knows about it - they aren't going to dig it up and replace it.
2. He said when he got to my house and measured the pair I was on he could hear a horrible hum. He said he found the best pair he could find and hooked me up to that.
3. My SNR has improved on the downstream quite a bit, but my upstream is still the same. He told me it just isn't going to get any better then what I have now - but he did tell me that with the new pair I'm on it should be stable - but that I should keep checking it to see if it's affected by the moisture in the morning, etc.
Here are my modem readings at 10:54 AM today:
Mode: G.DMT
Type: Interleave
Line Coding: Trellis On
Status: No Defect
Link Power State: L0
Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 16.2 10.0
Attenuation (dB): 52.0 31.5
Output Power (dBm): 16.8 11.9
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 6944 780
Rate (Kbps): 3360 672
As you can see, my upstream's max is 780 but the modem is synced at 672 because there probably isn't enough headroom at 780 to stay synced at 768 reliably. That's fine, I'd rather have 672 stable then 768 unstable - but I wish I could have what I'm provisioned for. :-( Those extra kilobytes/sec are precious when having to upload massive files).
So, I'm not sure what else I can do. If there is a known problem in my neighborhood with the copper trunk getting wet, etc. - and Verizon doesn't feel the need to replace it - DSLExtreme can't really do anything about it - so it's not their problem.
By the way, DSLExtreme has phoned me everyday since I created the ticket and has followed up promptly. Great job, guys!
- Marco
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tt0ne @ 18th Jun 08:06PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
Ok, this is NOT good. The line was holding at the values I posted above, but now it's 5:00 PM and I'm losing sync and dropping all over the place.
The values now for the downstream have dropped all the way to 4 and go up to 9 and flux between 4 and 9 - right now as I refresh the modem's ADSL page I can see it is at 7.
Obviously there is something wrong with the cable trunk that I'm on - because this is exactly what happened before the Verizon guy came today - I'm just on another copper pair.
So...
NOW WHAT DO WE DO?
If Verizon won't fix it (and the guy who came today admitted they are out here all the time in this area fixing that particular bundle) is there anything DSLExtreme can do to help?
I'm actually starting to worry a little bit. Connectivity is a big part of my livelihood... It just kills me to see fiber running by my house and just because I live in a condo with a housing association I can't order it...
For the record, the guy who came today was nothing like the guys who helped me out the other day. When I asked him, "so is this going to solve my problem?" - he said, "well, it's holding now - but it may change throughout the day. You'll have to check it." That wasn't very reassuring.
- Marco
For completeness sake, here is a snapshot as of right now:
Mode: G.DMT
Type: Interleave
Line Coding: Trellis On
Status: No Defect
Link Power State: L0
Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 7.3 10.0
Attenuation (dB): 52.0 31.5
Output Power (dBm): 19.6 11.9
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 4512 648
Rate (Kbps): 3360 544
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tt0ne @ 18th Jun 09:41PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
it's just getting worse... It's 6:41 PM...
Mode: G.DMT
Type: Interleave
Line Coding: Trellis On
Status: No Defect
Link Power State: L0
Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 6.3 10.0
Attenuation (dB): 52.0 31.5
Output Power (dBm): 19.6 11.9
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 4512 648
Rate (Kbps): 3360 544
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tt0ne @ 19th Jun 12:03AM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
9:03 PM...
Horrible. 5.1.
Mode: G.DMT
Type: Interleave
Line Coding: Trellis On
Status: No Defect
Link Power State: L0
Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 5.1 10.0
Attenuation (dB): 52.0 31.5
Output Power (dBm): 19.6 11.9
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 4512 648
Rate (Kbps): 3360 544
I'm just going to edit these posts instead of creating new ones as not to clutter up the thread:
Here is 9:32 - I've rebooted the modem - as you can see - the downstream has deteriorated so much over the course of the day that it can hardly hold on to what I was provisioned for - nevermind the upstream.
Mode: G.DMT
Type: Interleave
Line Coding: Trellis On
Status: No Defect
Link Power State: L0
Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 6.3 9.0
Attenuation (dB): 52.0 31.5
Output Power (dBm): 19.7 11.9
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 3488 576
Rate (Kbps): 3232 480
Man, I think I'm being punished for something I did in a past life...
- Marco
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CCarson @ 19th Jun 01:54AM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
You're being punished for giving money to Verizon (by way of DSLX). When I had landline service, dialtone would disappear completely on rainy days...it took four visits by different Verizon techs before one of them noticed that a backyard tree branch had grown completely around one of the phone wires! They switched me to a different line but never talked about fixing/replacing the piece of wiring that was now running through a tree (and yes it's still in the same condition).
This is why I won't support Verizon by patronizing their FIOS service even though it is available in my neighborhood.
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tt0ne @ 19th Jun 02:31PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
Help???
What do I do?
- Marco
It's the next day - 11:34 AM:
Mode: G.DMT
Type: Interleave
Line Coding: Trellis On
Status: No Defect
Link Power State: L0
Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 7.1 10.0
Attenuation (dB): 52.0 31.5
Output Power (dBm): 19.4 11.9
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 3872 772
Rate (Kbps): 3360 672
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Zak_D_H @ 19th Jun 04:24PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
Hi tt0ne,
Do the line readings improve for a period of time if you power-cycle the modem?
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tt0ne @ 19th Jun 04:42PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
Hi Zak,
I went ahead and power cycled just now before I replied to you to give you the readings after I did that:
Mode: G.DMT
Type: Interleave
Line Coding: Trellis On
Status: No Defect
Link Power State: L0
Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 8.1 10.0
Attenuation (dB): 52.0 31.5
Output Power (dBm): 19.4 11.9
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 4064 776
Rate (Kbps): 3360 672
K (number of bytes in DMT frame): 106 22
So, no, it's just horrible. The modem just keeps downcycling all the way to oblivion until basically my highest attainable rate is lower on the downstream then on the upstream...
Can you guys contact Verizon?
- Marco
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tt0ne @ 19th Jun 04:52PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
I just gave Dan from Verizon a call and told him what happened yesterday and he said that "he will call another DSL technician for me and give me a call back" - so that's where I'm at.
- Marco
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dslx_gm @ 19th Jun 04:54PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
Marco,
We would need to send out another Verizon technician to your location. If that was the best pair that they had available they may need to downgrade your speed tier in order to keep you stable.
It is odd that your downsteam remains fine but your upstream is adapting down. This usually indicates a problem with inside wiring or at the far end from my past experience. I believe you already tested from the MPOE though correct?
Thanks
--
George
General Manager
DSL Extreme
Will work for reviews. ;)
reply
tt0ne @ 19th Jun 05:17PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
Yes, tested at the NID.
I don't think it was the best pair they could find, I think it was the first pair they found...
- Marco
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tt0ne @ 19th Jun 06:58PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
The ticket that was opened last has been kept open and I got a call from Chris at DSLExtreme (he's been great by the way!) and he's opened up another ticket with Verizon to send someone here - but it'll probably be Monday before that can happen.
Hopefully between Dan and Chris - it'll get resolved.
- Marco
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tt0ne @ 22nd Jun 02:17PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
Ok, quick update.
It's Monday and the line still has a serious signal degradation causing all sorts of drop outs, ping spikes, etc. - so nothing to report on that.
Chris from DSLExtreme is the tech guy who has been assigned my ticket - that guy is awesome - there is no doubt in my mind he is doing everything he can at DSLExtreme's end to solve my problem. Verizon may just have to replace the copper bundle to stop Chris from bothering them.
At my end, I do have some more information to report. I saw a Verizon guy working at the same spot that Dan and George and the other Verizon guy who came were working at when they came for my problem. I see my neighbor directly across from me talking to him. So I go out and "investigate" and it turns out my neighbor has DSL through Verizon and this is the third time he has had them out to fix "line noise" (he also has voice service AND DSL). He said his internet is very problematic.
I also talked to Dan from Verizon (earlier in the thread if you want to know who he is) and he said he's going to talk to another supervisor today.
Verizon told Chris/DSLExtreme that they can't come out until the 26th :-( Chris said he'll call them everyday to see if they can't come out earlier.
So, that's where we are at.
- Marco
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vvilliamm @ 25th Jun 12:27AM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
sigh i really feel it for you man 0.0 i hope things turn out great =] cause for me ill b moving up to 1405 park avenue ny ny 10029 and it doesn't even get recognized by Verizon as an address. 0.0 so i guess i live in a middle of no where lol. right now im happy i have a 7.1mbps plan around 45 a month with verizon my real speed is probably 6.0 =/
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tt0ne @ 25th Jun 10:17PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
Hi VV,
Well, tomorrow I hope they have it fixed for me or I'm not sure what else to do. Good luck with your move, bro!
- Marco
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tt0ne @ 26th Jun 03:46PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
It's 12:44 PM and I just watched the Verizon tech guy (I didn't recognize him) go to the same place all the tech guys before him have gone. This time he didn't come to my door or let me know he was here...
Once he is done, I'll post my signal levels.
- Marco
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tt0ne @ 26th Jun 07:16PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
Ok, I have good news and bad news.
Here is the good news:
SNR Margin (dB): 12.4 10.0
Attenuation (dB): 54.0 31.5
Output Power (dBm): 19.6 11.9
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 5376 780
Rate (Kbps): 3360 672
The bad news is:
I've watched it stay like that for up to 20 minutes and then erratically fall as a far as 4. The upstream, as usual, stays pretty solid.
I can honestly say I've done my very best and because my work relies on internet connectivity - I can't see repeating this process over and over again.
First off, I don't blame DSLExtreme for any of this. This is NOT their fault - and they're customer service is AWESOME. Nothing more can be expected from them. The verizon tech guys, for the most part - have been great, too - but no one can make Verizon corporate replace the copper bundle outside my house.
The next step for me is to cancel my dry loop. As the moderators can probably already tell, I've been on Road Runner for the last few days (this was not my primary choice - it's my ONLY other choice where I live) - I needed connectivity during all of this troubleshooting - remember - I ordered way back on the 19th of last month - so knowing that I wouldn't see another technician until the 26th of this month and knowing there was a good chance it would be a repeatable problem - I ordered Road Runner...
The next step for me (and for this running experience) is to experience the cancellation steps.
I have two modems that must be sent back to DSLExtreme. Also, how do I cancel my dry loop without having to pay a cancellation charge? Who should I talk to, phone, etc.?
Once again, for anyone reading this thread in the future, DSLExtreme has done everything they possibly could to help me - the guys on this forum, Chris, etc. - they have been stellar. But, no one can make Verizon replace their copper bundle outside and it's a known problem with Verizon - even the techs have admitted it.
If someone could now just direct me to the right people to make sure I don't pay any cacellation fees, etc. I'd like to bring this thread to an end.
- Marco
PS: I also want to say that if you live in Redlands, CA area and you can get DSL and a stable loop - my opinion is you should still get DSLExtreme for the price - because as I knew in advance, the latency on the Road Runner service is horrible and the speeds are completely erratic. My only issue that makes it acceptable is that at least I stay connected - which for all my remote administration work - makes it tolerable.
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CCarson @ 27th Jun 05:12PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
Best of luck and bon voyage....
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tt0ne @ 28th Jun 04:04PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
CCarson,
My neighbor came over yesterday and asked if they fixed my line. I told him that it was good and bad depending on the time of day and he said that Verizon came and fixed his line the day before (I don't remember seeing anyone out there, but I wasn't looking either) and that it has been good.
It almost makes me want to keep trying... I also asked my neighbor if he was checking his internet during different times of the day and he said "that when he has gone to use it it has been good - but his voice service no longer has static" (I get the impression he was more concerned about voice)...
So I don't know...
Any advice from others? Should I continue to try and get a good stable loop or should I just go with Road Runner?
Maybe I should just have both. Lol.
- Marco
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tt0ne @ 28th Jun 06:22PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
The other thing I'm concerned about is the fact that I've never been able to sync at 768 on the upstream. I realize we are talking about a few extra K - but when doing the big uploads remotely like I have to do from time to time - that's very important to me and can cut down drastically the time it takes.
- Marco
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tt0ne @ 29th Jun 05:59PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
Yesterday, I received a call from DSLExtreme technical support but I was out with my family and wasn't expecting a call on Sunday (kudos for having someone call on a Sunday!).
Today, I received a call at around 8:30 AM but was still sleeping (I know I know - boo!).
So, DSLExtreme is trying to follow up with me - once again - showing they are all over this ticket. I've emailed them and told them that I am still having major issues with my downstream SNR and my upstream is still not able to connect at 768.
I think that Chris - the dude who has taken this ticket under his wings is still gone on vacation/days off.
Will post more as I know more.
- Marco
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tt0ne @ 30th Jun 12:32PM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
Hi everyone (won't this guy shutup? ;-),
Well, today was kind of a sad day considering all the work and time put into my dry loop but I started the cancellation process. I've read several posts here where some people have complained about this part of the DSLEXtreme experience so I've tried to be as thorough with DSLExtreme as I can be.
I phoned their 866 # and talked to a nice guy (forget his name now - I knew I should've written it down) and explained what had happened since the 19th of last month. He knew who George and Chris were - so that was good - and told him about the tickets and the thread on this forum. I asked him about cancellation fees, etc. and he told me that he will talk to George and Chris later today and verify with them about my dry loop issues and that he'd call me back tomorrow. He told me to go ahead and send both modems back which I'll do tomorrow when I talk to him. He said that based on what I told him there shouldn't be any cancellation fees, etc. So, I'm thankful for that.
I also emailed Chris and told him to go ahead and close any tickets that may be opened since there is no point working on them if I'm canceling my loop.
This whole thing is Verizon's fault. They know about the bad copper bundle outside of my place - they know it affects others beside just me - they refuse to fix it. And why should they (trying to reason this out in my own head?) - they have fiber running through my neighborhood that can and is servicing everyone else except for my condo complex (because they would need permission from our association) and don't they want everyone on the fiber instead of replacing copper? I don't know - just a guess.
When and if fiber is available at my complex (which I think will depend on me starting the process with our association and working with Verizon) I'd go through DSLExtreme in a heartbeat (instead of using FIOS directly through Verizon) because of the incredible customer support.
In the meantime, as I've posted above, my only other option for Broadband (besides going with a high latency satellite service) has been Road Runner - which I'm using now. One only needs to go over to the Road Runner forum on DSLreports.com to see the massive difference between the two companies as it compares to customer support.
So, this should be my last post on this thread. Thanks, George and Zak (and the guy who works for you, George - that Chris guy is awesome), CCarson and a big thanks for the patience towards me from our local forum moderator (and for making sure I don't give up all my private info by accident! lol!), Sashwa...
Warmly,
- Marco
PS: An example of how crazy Verizon is - I got a call from Chris early AM - he left a message saying the MPOE # associated with my dry loop won't let him open up a ticket with Verizon - which suggests that maybe they've changed circuits on me and not bothered to tell anyone).
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CCarson @ 2nd Jul 12:47AM:
Re: DSLXtreme Experience So Far
> This whole thing is Verizon's fault
Yes and no. Verizon is the party most responsible...but DSLX, by reselling, implicitly agrees to shoulder the burden of talking to Verizon on behalf of us, the consumers. Unfortunately DSLX fails miserably much of the time. I'm not saying it's easy to deal with Verizon (God knows, I've been a direct Verizon customer)...but that's what we're paying them to do.
> only other option...has been Road Runner
And this is why competition is the saving grace for the consumer: options.
Best of luck to you, and sorry for your travails.
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