[Signals] 750ft, can it be done? Page 8

[Signals] 750ft, can it be done? Page 8
Links: home · search · speed test · login · more ·

Links: Reply New Topic
Forums » Comcast » Comcast HSI » [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?
page: 1 · 2 · 3 ...5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10
gar187er @ 27th Oct 09:55PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

said by Cjaiceman :

I thought techs from other areas couldn't pull up maps except for their area...

i was kidding man....lol....i could pull them up if i had the link to a different region/division...but i only have my regions maps
reply

Cjaiceman @ 27th Oct 10:08PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

said by hussle87 :

so how far are you from a node? just out of curiousity.

I don't know exact footage, but that is how the cable maps show I am. I know at the splice point they are almost half way between amps 6 and 7, and as you can see in my previous post the amp for my line is just for me, they are not amping the rest of the trunk with it.
--
Duct tape is like The Force – it has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together

cypherstream @ 27th Oct 10:13PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

They gave you a copy of system maps for your area? Does it indicate stuff like power supplies and exactly where the amps are?
reply

Cjaiceman @ 27th Oct 10:27PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

Going off memory, I got a good look at it though :D

Edit - I do know where there are 2 power supplies on this line though, one where Baffaloberry Dr meets Tomahawk, and another where the line splits going around bellcross cir.
reply

hussle87 @ 31st Oct 12:06AM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

so how are things going? any issues yet?
reply

Cjaiceman @ 31st Oct 12:13AM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

The project has been at a stand still since last Monday because of a moratorium that has been placed on the area due to the world series and it being Halloween. They can't do the splice until the night of Monday the 2nd. Once the splice is done I should be good to go. Then engineering will come out and check the signals and noise of the line. If they are happy with it, then I get cleared and I can setup a date to get service installed. Hopefully by the end of next week I should be up and running. So close, but so far away... :huh:
--
Duct tape is like The Force – it has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together
reply

madden2k5 @ 2nd Nov 02:48PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

Well you should be good to go by the end of the week. You must be happy to have some faster internet coming, i know both dsl/dailup suck badly, and i probably wouldn't even use the internet if that was all i had.
reply

Cjaiceman @ 2nd Nov 09:09PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

Well, the splice should happen tonight, so we shall see how it goes.
reply

Der_Idiot @ 3rd Nov 11:24AM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

Any luck with the splice?
reply

Cjaiceman @ 3rd Nov 04:56PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

Yes, the splice was done. Everything seems to be going well so far.
reply

DarkLogix @ 3rd Nov 05:28PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

how are the RF stats
reply

EG @ 3rd Nov 05:37PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

Be curious to see a random trace or two as well.
reply

WiFiguru @ 4th Nov 01:50AM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

I am curious of the results as well. I think most of the people following this thread are =)
reply

harodude @ 4th Nov 02:21AM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

I await the good news, hopefully!
reply

Cjaiceman @ 4th Nov 09:28PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

Tracing route to www.dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]over a maximum of 30 hops:   1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  pfsense.*****.com [10.10.1.1]  2     *        *        *     Request timed out.  3     6 ms     6 ms     6 ms  68.85.221.149  4     6 ms     6 ms     6 ms  te-9-1-ur02.englewood.co.denver.comcast.net [68.86.103.114]  5     9 ms     8 ms     7 ms  te-0-0-0-4-ar02.aurora.co.denver.comcast.net [68.86.103.45]  6     8 ms     9 ms     9 ms  pos-0-4-0-0-cr01.denver.co.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.91.101]  7     9 ms     9 ms    20 ms  te-4-3.car2.Denver1.Level3.net [4.79.82.53]  8    19 ms    16 ms    17 ms  ae-31-51.ebr1.Denver1.Level3.net [4.68.107.30]  9    21 ms    17 ms    17 ms  ae-1-100.ebr2.Denver1.Level3.net [4.69.132.38] 10    34 ms    33 ms    33 ms  ae-3.ebr1.Chicago2.Level3.net [4.69.132.62] 11    32 ms    33 ms    33 ms  ae-1-100.ebr2.Chicago2.Level3.net [4.69.132.114] 12    64 ms    64 ms    62 ms  ae-2-2.ebr2.Washington1.Level3.net [4.69.132.70] 13    66 ms    72 ms    71 ms  ae-4-4.ebr2.Newark1.Level3.net [4.69.132.102] 14    62 ms    61 ms    62 ms  ae-21-52.car1.Newark1.Level3.net [4.68.99.37] 15    63 ms    64 ms    61 ms  NETCCESS.car1.Newark1.Level3.net [4.79.189.74] 16    63 ms    64 ms    64 ms  0.e1-4.tbr2.oct.nac.net [209.123.10.126] 17    62 ms    64 ms    67 ms  gi7-16.esd1.oct.nac.net [209.123.10.222] 18    62 ms    62 ms    64 ms  www.dslreports.com [209.123.109.175] Trace complete.

This is a temp install, but everything is up and working.

--
Duct tape is like The Force – it has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together

cypherstream @ 4th Nov 11:27PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

Cool! State of the art, 4 channels bonded together off of a 1 GHz amplifier and brand new cabling.
reply

WiFiguru @ 5th Nov 12:07AM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

Oh man!

Awesome!

Very nice. Bet you are very happy :)
reply

gar187er @ 5th Nov 08:29AM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

im gonna guess they didnt balance that amp yet?

24 return??? lol
reply

beachintech @ 5th Nov 08:03AM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

Holy low upstream batman! I would stick a 4 way / 6 way behind your modem and try to bring that transmit level up a bit.
--
Tech at the Beach.
I speak for myself, not my employer.
reply

K Patterson @ 5th Nov 08:21AM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

That will raise the level in the short piece of coax between the modem and the 4 - way. How is that helpful?
reply

cypherstream @ 5th Nov 08:58AM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

Yeah would appear to need balancing. Even if you brought your downstream to 0, your only looking at a +31 return.

Your upstream speeds are phenomenal though, despite the low return!
reply

DarkLogix @ 5th Nov 09:49AM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

I would leave as is since the return is the power output of the modem and if the cmts is getting the signal loud enough then its fine

before going one way or the other about low up power I'd want to see the RF stats on the CMTS because its possible that the CMTS is getting plenty of signal from the modem
reply

EG @ 5th Nov 10:53AM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

said by beachintech :

Holy low upstream batman! I would stick a 4 way / 6 way behind your modem and try to bring that transmit level up a bit.

Why ?
reply

DarkLogix @ 5th Nov 11:05AM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

said by EG :

said by beachintech :

Holy low upstream batman! I would stick a 4 way / 6 way behind your modem and try to bring that transmit level up a bit.

Why ?

Well some think that an upstream power level below 40 is to low but really its only to low if the CMTS can't "hear" it

it just needs to be "loud" enough that the signal that the CMTS gets from the cm is usable
reply

EG @ 5th Nov 11:12AM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

I know. Not only that but as I and others have said many times before that this is a tough concept to understand sometimes, but you wind up with exactly the same amount on RF transmit power on the upstream side of the splitter anyway..
reply

DarkLogix @ 5th Nov 11:53AM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

said by EG :

I know. Not only that but as I and others have said many times before that this is a tough concept to understand sometimes, but you wind up with exactly the same amount on RF transmit power on the upstream side of the splitter anyway..

you could flip the spliter around
in a combiner way

then put a term on the open ports to see any change in rf

but the CM should turn its own power up till the CMTS can hear if it was having trouble turning up the power then its a problem but as its connecting its not

in my opinion upstream troubleshooting needs the CMTS rf stats
reply

EG @ 5th Nov 12:07PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

said by DarkLogix :

in my opinion upstream troubleshooting needs the CMTS rf stats

Agreed !
reply

Cjaiceman @ 5th Nov 04:00PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

well, as of right now we don't need to troubleshoot anything as the connectios is solid as a rock.
reply

DarkLogix @ 5th Nov 04:32PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

no but you need to start getting your value out of it
go download alot
reply

Cjaiceman @ 5th Nov 07:09PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

I'm already at 293GB total upload + download :D
reply

tshirt @ 5th Nov 07:35PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

said by Cjaiceman :

I'm already at 293GB total upload + download :D

I'm typing "the letter" right now!!! ;)
You're sucking so much bandwidth, the lights are going dim in denver!!! ;)
reply

Cjaiceman @ 5th Nov 07:44PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

Nonsense, that's nothing for me. For June and July (before I moved) I was doing 900-1100GB/month on average, and that was on the 22/5.... 800+ GB /month is the normal for me since I upgraded to the 22/5 in April this year is where I am normally. :p

Edit - uploaded picture for use in June.
--
Duct tape is like The Force – it has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together

Enjoralas @ 5th Nov 09:46PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

said by DarkLogix :

said by EG :

said by beachintech :

Holy low upstream batman! I would stick a 4 way / 6 way behind your modem and try to bring that transmit level up a bit.

Why ?

Not "some." People who know more about it than you think that, because they are right.

However, I do agree that throwing a splitter in to raise transmit won't do a darn thing, since the excess power would be "used up" by the splitter. The transmit needs to be set to a proper level on the plant. The amp needs to be balanced and a line conditioner likely installed if there's not one there already.
reply

iansltx @ 5th Nov 11:40PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

Solid. Guess that's a biz-class connection then :p
reply

Cjaiceman @ 5th Nov 11:54PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

said by iansltx :

Solid. Guess that's a biz-class connection then :p

You are correct :D
--
Duct tape is like The Force – it has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together
reply

anon @ 6th Nov 11:58AM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

said by EG :

said by beachintech :

Holy low upstream batman! I would stick a 4 way / 6 way behind your modem and try to bring that transmit level up a bit.

Why ?

If this is evaluated simply based on power levels it doesn't seem to provide any benfit as some people have said. However, if one considers the signal to noise ratio of the transmitted signal there is a benefit. If we look at the output of the modem at say 24dBmV this signal will have a certain noise level and a finite signal to noise ratio. The noise in this case being largely thermal noise and a few other contributing factors in the modem. If some loss is inserted in the signal path such as some have stated, the transmitted signal level will increase yet the noise level will remain relatively steady. Thus there is an improvement in signal to noise ratio at the output of the modem. When the new higher signal passes through the splitter or attenuator used to increase the transmit level the signal will be once again attenuated back to the 24dBmV but the benefit is that the noise will also be attenuated, maintaining a reasonably constant SNR through the passive device.
The idea behing increasing the upstream level like some have suggested is to see an improved signal to noise ratio at the CMTS. Now I am not saying it is neccesary in this case, or many cases, but there seem to be a few people asking why one would want to increase the transmit level and the above is a somewhat over-simplified explanation of the reasoning.
reply

EG @ 6th Nov 12:05PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

said by CanadianTech :

When the new higher signal passes through the splitter or attenuator used to increase the transmit level the signal will be once again attenuated back to the 24dBmV but the benefit is that the noise will also be attenuated, maintaining a reasonably constant SNR through the passive device.

In real life field conditions how often is this really beneficial or helpful ? I would say that mostly noise or ingress is introduced into the plant farther upstream of the back of the modem. How great is the amount of "thermal" noise generated in a modern modem anyway.
reply

anon @ 6th Nov 12:44PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

It is frequently helpful, especially in areas with an elevated noise floor. However, the benefit is not 1 to 1 such that a one dB increase in transmit power does not provide a 1 dB improvement in SNR. There are some cases where it may provide no benefit. It would depend on the noise floor at the CMTS as well as the SNR characteristics of the modem transmitter with regards to transmit level (ie SNR vs Tx level, not the Motorola or whomever would actually provide that...). In a lab type setup where there is no noise the transmit level would not be too critical but in real world application it does matter. Furthermore due to the nature of digital systems an improvement in SNR does not neccesarily mean an improvement in performance, but depending on what the SNR is, it may matter. In either case, there is nothing worng with a little extra headroom.

Also, as some have said it should really be done at the street as the low transmit indicates that any signals coming back from a subscriber's home see little net loss before reaching the CMTS thus any 'noise' coming back from poor wiring, faulty CPE, etc also sees little net loss and contributes to an elevated noise floor.
Most noise and ingress is introduced into the plant from house wiring and drops. However even in your suggestion that "mostly noise or ingress is introduced into the plant farther upstream" the benefit is still the same. Any noise or ingress in the return path(regardless of source) is additive at the node contributing to an elevated noise floor and potentially SNR issues. Correctly setting the return levels in the plant has more benefit than simply adding some loss on the back of the modem (as you and others may have siggested).

However, to add a disclaimer, my original comment was simply a quick explanation of why others are suggesting to add loss in the link. I do not know the specifics of the case here or the upstream SNR for the modem in this case.
reply

K Patterson @ 6th Nov 12:55PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

Let's go back to basics.

No cable modem is capable of measuring SNR.

No CMTS is capable of measuring SNR.

Both estimate the SNR using the formulas developed 60 years ago by Claude Shannon. The modem and CMTS note how many correctible errors occur, and convert that to an estimated SNR using the assumption that all the errors result from white noise.

So the apparent SNR includes real noise, distortions in the equipment and transmission, and esepcially modulation errors, occurring in the modem or in subsequent amplifiers.

Now, how much of that can occur in a modem and the short piece of cable between it an a splitter? Essentially zero.

The only time when it makes sense to boost the output of a mode is when there are other noise sources on the premisis, such as cheap TV', amateur radio equipment, fish tank heaters, etcc. Under those circumstances it makes sense to install filter which attenuates the ustream frequencies, at the ground block or preferably at the tap.

Lastly, please note that at any giveninstant the upstream SNR is the same for all modems connected to that channel on the CMTS. It can and does vary from one moment to the next, obviously. When you see amodem with a low estimated SNR on the upstream, that's a signal to find out what is going on on that circuit. Installing a splitter is never a fix.
reply

anon @ 6th Nov 01:08PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

said by EG :

said by CanadianTech :

How great is the amount of "thermal" noise generated in a modern modem anyway.

I don't know, but I think if you ask an electronics tech they would say something like 'KTB'. Anyways, I was simply trying to help people see that the SNR must be considered to understand the potential benefit of increasing transmit level.
reply

anon @ 6th Nov 01:04PM:
msg deleted

deleted by a moderator
reply

anon @ 6th Nov 01:15PM:
msg deleted

deleted by a moderator
reply

rody_44 @ 7th Nov 07:15PM:
Re: [Signals] 750ft, can it be done?

I thought you did a pretty good job of it.
reply