[CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

[CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?
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nweibley @ 22nd Sep 02:49PM:
[CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

Has anyone noticed the HD quality increasingly suffering? It seems as Cox adds more HD channels to their lineup they are at least partially creating space for them by compressing the existing channels more heavily.

It's getting to the point where in the Gainesville market the HD is more like direcTV's "HdLite". The macroblocking is getting intolerable, and during scene changes (especially fades from black) the compression artifacting is startling. There are pink color casts superimposed which appear to be almost corrupt streams superimposed on terrible quality feeds... etc.

I don't believe this to be a problem with the signal because a) it's a digital signal and b) it's more obvious during motion and detail-filled scenes which suggests it is a bandwidth/bitrate issue.

Am I alone in noticing/feeling this? Does Cox have a plan to readily attack this soon?
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anon @ 22nd Sep 03:38PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

The way Cox is adding HD channels it should not effect quality. They either put 1, 2 or 3 channels per QAM. They have been following this policy for quite some time. I would imagine all of their regions follow this policy.

Assuming they are following that policy they are not compressing channels anymore than previous -- and considering the way the process the channels many are not compressed at all. That is what I like about Cox HD they don't compress like Direct's HD Lite or U-Verse.
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anon @ 22nd Sep 04:10PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

If you're experiencing macroblocking/digital tiling, it's sounds more like you're having an RF signal issue that should be addressed. In inadequate signal will result in the QAM signaling to be incorrectly translated (ie: what should have been 111111111 was interpretted by the settop as 11000101). Thus the mpeg stream is errored and what you see as blocks is an error mpeg steam. I would recommend contacting support and having a tech visit to check your signals.
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BillRoland @ 22nd Sep 04:42PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

I'm here to rain on the "its your RF level" parade, because I'm down in Ocala (different city in the same Cox market) and I am seeing the exact same thing, and its has really gone in the tank the last couple of weeks.

With apologies to HDPokeFan, Cox compresses the crap out of most if not all their HD channels. To suggest that they don't compress hardly any is fantasy.
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anon @ 22nd Sep 05:01PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

The place to start, however, is with a tech to ensure there are no signal issues on the HD video carriers. The problems the OP is describing are symptomatic of signal problems. I would suspect if this were an issue of compression it would be a widely occuring issue and the problem would be voiced by their customers.
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nweibley @ 22nd Sep 04:57PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

Yup. I'm a senior EE student and I know plenty about RF ingress/signal modulation/bit loss and this isn't it. RF ingress isn't this predictable, and usually error checking means the signal is temporarily dropped or interpolated when errors are detected.

This is entirely different, and it looks really _really_ bad. I just got a new Panasonic 58V10 plasma and moving from my 42" plasma it has only gotten more noticeable and more annoying.
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nweibley @ 22nd Sep 05:06PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

Ok, allow me to be explicit. It isn't my RF levels. This happens at multiple locations throughout the city, and multiple dwellings with different types of STBs/DVRs.

To give you an idea of my signal levels my SB5101 is on a 2 way splitter with 3dB attenuation, and the modem reports -3dB signal constantly. There are not and have not ever been downstream signal issues at this location: it is a new condo complex with new Cox equipment.

So allow me to restate that the issue is not interference. I promise faithfully, if you were watching the picture it would become immediately apparent that this is not a signal issue. I'm just curious if other locations are experiencing it. From BillR's account it seems like at least the Gainesville/Ocala market is affected... anyone else?
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robl27 @ 22nd Sep 07:05PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

their plants are at 1.0 ghz should be plenty of room to allow for excellent picture quality and room for more, i don't know what the next step is, 5.0 ghz?

i'm seeing a lot of channels in the 800 mhz range here, too. (according to the diagnostic page)

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tubbynet @ 22nd Sep 07:55PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

said by robl27 :

their plants are at 1.0 ghz should be plenty of room to allow for excellent picture quality and room for more, i don't know what the next step is, 5.0 ghz?

rob, really??!!
haven't this been done to death here?!

currently in the cox markets, the plants are *all* 1ghz. however, there is no *gear* that can effectively *use* the 1ghz spectrum fully. the new d3 modems are on carriers that reside above most of the deployed spectrum (i.e. in the arizona market the new d3 modems are bonding at 843mhz+ for the high-speed tiers), so that gives you an "upper limit" of what has been done so far.

now, *there are no stbs that utilize frequencies above 860mhz*. period. end of story.
if you are in a test market, cox may begin to slowly rollout the new sci/atl explorer 8600hd/c boxen that can use the new spectrum, but until that day, there is nothing using it. i'm sure that moto has the boxen with 1ghz tuners in it, but i'm not sure of the model numbers.

now, the plant may get pushed above 1ghz eventually. however, even bringing everything to 1ghz posed a bit of a challenge. you have to realize that even high quality "low-loss" coaxial cable has a high attenuation constant when you push it up to 1ghz. on average, your standard rg6/u has an alpha of -13db/100' at 1ghz frequencies. to put this another way you get 5% out of whatever you put into that cable after 100 feet. while the trunk plant from the node (more than likely) isn't running simple rg6/u, the idea is the same - there is a metric sh!t-ton of loss in the cable at high frequencies. because of this, actives, amplifiers, balancers, and regeneration timers needed to be run along the path after the node splits to coax and levels needed to be checked diligently at every pedestal to make sure that everything was hunky-dory at the high frequencies. this wasn't a willy-nilly upgrade.
i would tend to believe that rather than possibly fighting the plant even more, cox would start working on skimming down analog channels, utilizing sdv for channels that are less popular and "digital only". from there, they could start a slow progression to mpeg4 compression for channels that already require a box once the supply is great enough to allow people to swap (mpeg4 is only supported on the new sci/atl 8600hd/c and the moto equivalent). this could free valuable spectrum to push more channels, rather than just bumping the plant again.

now, please remember this....mmmkay?

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."
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tubbynet @ 22nd Sep 08:00PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

said by nweibley :

To give you an idea of my signal levels my SB5101 is on a 2 way splitter with 3dB attenuation, and the modem reports -3dB signal constantly. There are not and have not ever been downstream signal issues at this location: it is a new condo complex with new Cox equipment.

however, as an ee student, you must not forget that data, phone, and video all utilize different downstream and upstream carrier channels in different segments of spectrum. just because your modem is working at that level (say at 573mhz) doesn't mean a basic cable channel (around 100mhz) or a newly added sdv hdtv channel (at 800mhz) will behave the same in a coaxial cable.
you *have* to utilize the box to view the signal and diagnostic information *for that carrier* before you can make judgements across the board.

i'm not saying that your issue is signal related. what i am saying is that your blanket statement of "my modem works fine so i have no signal issues" is a sweeping generalization that could be incorrect.

q.

[edit] fixed the username in the bquote box
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ajwees41 @ 22nd Sep 09:17PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

The Motorola DCX line has 1GHz tuners. I have not heard of any being used yet though either.
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BillRoland @ 22nd Sep 10:01PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

said by folick :

The place to start, however, is with a tech to ensure there are no signal issues on the HD video carriers. The problems the OP is describing are symptomatic of signal problems. I would suspect if this were an issue of compression it would be a widely occuring issue and the problem would be voiced by their customers.

Its happening at the same time, on the same channels at my house and my parents house as well. Its pretty inconceivable to think that me, my parents, and nweibley 40 miles away are all having the same RF issue.
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dvd536 @ 22nd Sep 11:35PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

said by nweibley :

Has anyone noticed the HD quality increasingly suffering? It seems as Cox adds more HD channels to their lineup they are at least partially creating space for them by compressing the existing channels more heavily.

It's getting to the point where in the Gainesville market the HD is more like direcTV's "HdLite". The macroblocking is getting intolerable, and during scene changes (especially fades from black) the compression artifacting is startling. There are pink color casts superimposed which appear to be almost corrupt streams superimposed on terrible quality feeds... etc.

I don't believe this to be a problem with the signal because a) it's a digital signal and b) it's more obvious during motion and detail-filled scenes which suggests it is a bandwidth/bitrate issue.

Am I alone in noticing/feeling this? Does Cox have a plan to readily attack this soon?

I noticed it on last weekends cardinals game. it was so bad it looked like a bad analog picture.
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nweibley @ 22nd Sep 11:44PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

said by tubbynet :

however, as an ee student, you must not forget that data, phone, and video all utilize different downstream and upstream carrier channels in different segments of spectrum. just because your modem is working at that level (say at 573mhz) doesn't mean a basic cable channel (around 100mhz) or a newly added sdv hdtv channel (at 800mhz) will behave the same in a coaxial cable.
you *have* to utilize the box to view the signal and diagnostic information *for that carrier* before you can make judgements across the board.

i'm not saying that your issue is signal related. what i am saying is that your blanket statement of "my modem works fine so i have no signal issues" is a sweeping generalization that could be incorrect.

q.

[edit] fixed the username in the bquote box

I'm quite well aware, however it is an illustrative point that indicates the lines and signals in the building and my condo have been flawless, and as I said it is clear from looking at the picture it has nothing to do with RF ingress. As a person with experience in discrete time digital signals I am easily able to tell the visual difference between the two.

So, now that I know I'm not crazy (I was waiting for someone else to post the issue and was wondering why they were not) I'm wondering what the proper channels are to find out what is going on. It is so bad it's definitely grounds for considering a Sat provider.
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UHT111 @ 23rd Sep 12:05AM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

said by ajwees41 :

The Motorola DCX line has 1GHz tuners. I have not heard of any being used yet though either.

Omaha IS using Moto DCX3200's and DCX3400's are on the way.....
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nweibley @ 23rd Sep 12:24AM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

I decided it was best if I posted up pictures of the phenomenon so people could see just how staggeringly bad it is.

Here is the link to the flickr set:
»www.flickr.com/photos/nate-weibl···2228869/

And these are linkable pictures... you can view them at 100% on the flickr page to see detail:

This is a full 58" diagonal shot of a slow sweeping pan (paused so my SLR could capture it sharply) on palladia. It is crucial to note how unsharp and awful the crowd looks. That is NOT the camera that is the signal.

Take a look at what is going on down by the palladia logo, for example. This is not the TV... this is flat out the compression being applied to the signal.

This shot is, despite it's appearance, in sharp focus. The performer is lifting the mic to sing but the compression is glitching so badly she looks blurry. Note, this is not a super close up macro shot, you'll see in the next photo this is pretty sizalble chunk of the screen for blocking and quality loss this bad.

This is the exact same still frame from above, just I walked back a bit. You'll see this is a 58" diagonal, so it's not like we're talking about a miniscule section of pixels on the last photo. This is massive loss in detail, and is apparent and distracting watching HD content from 11' away.

That was all I took in this series, though I'm tempted to take a shot of a BluRay to illustrate that what you are seeing has nothing to do with the camera or the TV which can both produce a superb image. I also jumped into the diagnostic screens on the DVR and will post those soon.

Unacceptable Cox! Please fix this!
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tubbynet @ 23rd Sep 12:26AM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

said by nweibley :

I'm quite well aware, however it is an illustrative point that indicates the lines and signals in the building and my condo have been flawless

please re-read

what i am saying is that your blanket statement of "my modem works fine so i have no signal issues" is a sweeping generalization that could be incorrect.

(emphasis mine).

without actually reading signal levels, from the box, you don't know that the levels are _flawless_ on each channel.
again, i'm not saying your signal levels are the cause of your problem. however, what i'm saying is don't let your education get in the way of whats really going on.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."
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nweibley @ 23rd Sep 12:32AM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

To put this issue to rest, here is the diagnostic info for that specific channel at the time those pictures were taken:

CoxTech1 @ 23rd Sep 08:33AM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

I'm not a video expert but I did take a look at the modem for reference purposes and it does appear from what I can tell that there may be an RF problem particularly in the upstream carrier. SNR is marginal and data errors are being reported. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to have a technician come take a look.
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nweibley @ 23rd Sep 10:18AM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

CoxTech1,
we've had an issue with upstream power before, particularly because we are the farthest run from the drop in the building and we are right at the marginal threshold of 50dBmV for an acceptable SNR. We've had a tech out for the issue before and haven't had any problems since, but I'm willing to entertain having another out if it means the ball will get rolling on this issue.
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anon @ 23rd Sep 12:41PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

Can anyone figure out the bit-rate of the recorded material?

Don't know how to do this with a Cox STB/DVR but with Tivo it can be done. That would give evidence of reducing picture quality.
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cableok @ 24th Sep 02:05PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

said by BillRoland :

I'm here to rain on the "its your RF level" parade, because I'm down in Ocala (different city in the same Cox market) and I am seeing the exact same thing, and its has really gone in the tank the last couple of weeks.

With apologies to HDPokeFan, Cox compresses the crap out of most if not all their HD channels. To suggest that they don't compress hardly any is fantasy.

It may depend on market, but many of the Oklahoma HD channels are not compressed at all. And I know they dont compress other channels anywhere near the rate of DirecTV or AT&T.
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BillRoland @ 24th Sep 11:58PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

said by cableok :

It may depend on market, but many of the Oklahoma HD channels are not compressed at all. And I know they dont compress other channels anywhere near the rate of DirecTV or AT&T.

Are you in a Switched Digital Video market? If not I would find it highly unlike they aren't compressing HD channels at all.
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cob_ @ 28th Sep 09:24AM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

said by cableok :

It may depend on market, but many of the Oklahoma HD channels are not compressed at all. And I know they dont compress other channels anywhere near the rate of DirecTV or AT&T.

Citation? I am pretty sure they do, and the broadcasters themselves do it as well. These blocking problems during fast motion are almost certainly compression artifacts. It becomes immediately apparent when a football player is followed closely by camera as he jogs down the sideline after a play, etc. Everything around him looks like digital puke.
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nweibley @ 28th Sep 09:44AM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

cob_ are you seeing this problem in the Ok market?

To me the telltale sign is chroma glitches when a scene fades in from black. The macroblocking is terrible but there are sometimes a brief color cast that is introduced in error and then drop almost instantly. Often it is a quick pink color cast that flashes over the highly compressed image and disappears in a few frames, maybe 3.
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cob_ @ 28th Sep 04:06PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

I don't see what you're seeing with the pink frames, just the same motion artifacting (usually during live events) I've always seen. What box do you have? Also, I have seen some Samsung plasma sets which have a voltage problem which causes red/pink blocking in dark areas. My father-in-law's set had this problem, so I got to see it first-hand. If you can upload a little video of it happening, I could identify it, if that's it.
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acid343211 @ 28th Sep 06:19PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

Go here repost your Signal's

»homepage.ntlworld.com/robin.d.h.···ard.html

Or press
»192.168.100.1/signal.htm
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nweibley @ 28th Sep 07:41PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

No it isn't a TV problem because it happens on both TVs in our place (a 42" Toshiba plasma and new 58" Panasonic V10 plasma) on 2 different DVRs as well as at a friend's place a few blocks away with a different panasonic plasma.
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BillRoland @ 28th Sep 11:36PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

said by cob_ :

These blocking problems during fast motion are almost certainly compression artifacts. It becomes immediately apparent when a football player is followed closely by camera as he jogs down the sideline after a play, etc. Everything around him looks like digital puke.

That's exactly where I notice it the worst; fast action sequences, and this being football season, there's plenty of that on.
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tubbynet @ 28th Sep 11:41PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

said by BillRoland :

That's exactly where I notice it the worst; fast action sequences, and this being football season, there's plenty of that on.

not to be patronizing and on the side of cox, but are you able to pull down an ota feed to see if its the same? i used to complain a lot about the local nbc affiliate here in phoenix a lot, but after being on the ota antenna, i've realized that it may very well have been the feed, and not cox.

q.
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BillRoland @ 28th Sep 11:53PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

said by tubbynet :

said by BillRoland :

That's exactly where I notice it the worst; fast action sequences, and this being football season, there's plenty of that on.

That's a fair question, unfortunately I do not have the ability to get OTA feeds at this time.

I really don't think that's the problem, though, at least not in all the cases. I would find it almost incredible that NBC, 2 ABC, CBS, FOX, ESPN, ESPN2 etc all have terrible feeds that look ok for the evening news or SportsCenter, but during an action scene or football game, it looks horrible.

Again, it may be a problem with the feeds, but its the sheer number of channels that exhibit the same behavior that has me suspecting they're being overcompressed at the Cox headend.
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tubbynet @ 28th Sep 11:55PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

said by BillRoland :

Again, it may be a problem with the feeds, but its the sheer number of channels that exhibit the same behavior that has me suspecting they're being overcompressed at the Cox headend.

good point. i am not sure i caught the "multiple channels" aspect. i thought it was one or two cases. it would be interesting to see if anyone else (in less rural locations) can pull ota and compare with the local networks (obviously espn won't be over ota).

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."
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nweibley @ 29th Sep 09:03AM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

Absolutely, this is every channel I've got including premium HD channels, the travel channel, etc. It seems to be compression cox is implementing at their end.

I can't say for sure though, and I'm still not quite clear on how/who we would get in touch with to find out of this is intentional/fixable/going to change with SDV etc.
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Radardan @ 29th Sep 12:43PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

I've also been fighting the picture quality issues and can say that they can be resolved. Currently I do not see them.

But it has taken months.

That gray Cox area which is beyond your pedestal can be very frustrating. You can be weeks or months without any information about what is going on except for the Cox guys here like Chris.

Keep after it and ask for all the Cox credit they will give you.
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nweibley @ 2nd Oct 07:57PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

Found great examples of this problem just now while watching Discovery HD Theater.

Here is some severe scene-change glitch

Here is an example of in scene blocking glitching.

Still trying to catch some of the color glitching. Still not thrilled.
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cob_ @ 3rd Oct 11:54AM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

Ok, I've seen stuff like your top image when there's fast motion, but your bottom image is unacceptably bad. Was the car in fast motion in that shot? Either way, HD quality needs some serious scrutiny from Cox and broadcasters.
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nweibley @ 4th Oct 10:01PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

Bump. Anybody? Cox? Hello? I know this doesn't pass as acceptable... if this were a big market and getting exposed on say AVSForums the uproar would be deafening. Who can I forward these feed snapshots to? Who can I get in touch with that can actually assess what is going on?

re: cob_ it was a panning shot but the car was moving in frame slightly. The first shot was a fade from black with some blurred/washed color snapping into a picture. The effect would have looked cool, but instead it looked like a tile floor.
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CoxTech1 @ 5th Oct 09:27AM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

Did you have the technician come out and look into the RF problems I mentioned yet?
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cableok @ 8th Oct 04:47PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

said by cob_ :

said by cableok :

It may depend on market, but many of the Oklahoma HD channels are not compressed at all. And I know they dont compress other channels anywhere near the rate of DirecTV or AT&T.

A broadcaster may compress. What I meant is that Cox, at least in Oklahoma, does not compress and/or alter the HD signals of broadcasters. They are sent to customers essientially the same way they are received from Cox.
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wierdo @ 11th Oct 12:44AM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

said by nweibley :

Found great examples of this problem just now while watching Discovery HD Theater.

Here is some severe scene-change glitch

Here is an example of in scene blocking glitching.

Still trying to catch some of the color glitching. Still not thrilled.

Those are typical examples of dropped P or B frames, not of macroblocking due to inadequate bandwidth.

On the other hand, the Palladia image posted previously reeks of bit starvation.

Edited to add: Some of the HD channels Cox has to recompress themselves, as they are distributed in MPEG-4. Perhaps even many these days. I don't think they're doing much if any alteration of the OTA signals, however. All the Tulsa OTA stations have one or more subchannels. Enough to make football look bad, for sure.

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anon @ 11th Oct 12:49AM:
msg deleted

deleted by a moderator
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nweibley @ 24th Oct 05:22PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

Bump. Today things are looking _worse_ especially noticed FX channel is looking utterly terrible. Periodic chroma glitches happen in gray textures about every 3-4 seconds...

Feel like nobody at Cox is getting the picture on this. (No pun intended)
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m8trix @ 24th Oct 05:59PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

did you have a tech come out yet since asked 2 post ago
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nweibley @ 24th Oct 06:27PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

No, as BillRoland and I have clearly articulated having a tech out to look at the signal is almost certainly going to solve nothing. IME if anything it is a stalling tactic, and extremely frustrating to boot.

An inside wiring signal problem explicitly cannot explain the phenomenon's simultaneous presence at multiple locations throughout the city and into neighboring Ocala. That is the crux of my frustration with the time-wasting tech visit...

With that said I have also asked if having a tech out is the only way to get some attention on this issue at a regional level... I'm still not clear on that. I worry that a tech will come out, foot drag about upstream signal problems which have absolutely nothing to do with downstream video feeds, and nothing will get done about this.
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needforspeed59 @ 24th Oct 06:47PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

At any given moment people across any given community can be having similar issues. It doesn't mean it is systemic. I may be. it may not be. You need to get a tech out first. Complaining here is not going to get anything acomplished. I wish you luck and hope whatever it is gets resolved.
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m8trix @ 24th Oct 08:29PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

as stated it may not be systematic you are 1 person out of god know how many customers and if every person was having the same issue im sure cox would of dealt with it but as it seem to be just a few people you know that by chance are having same issue it can still be related to your residence and need to have a tech go out.if your not going to have a tech out there is no point in posting in here help
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anon @ 24th Oct 08:46PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

Every TV is different. From refresh rates to Tv settings. All sports are filmed in 720p because of the fact that most TV's cannot keep up with the fast movement causing a blurred trail affect.

I have in my Home a Samsung 240 LED and a sharp Aquos. Both TV's display differently, and yes I prefer to watch on my LED because of the resilience picture quality. I also take in consideration that these TV's are meant to watch HD not Standard Def. and most shows are not in the 16:9 format today so when the box adjust for it you can tell the pic quality is distorted, but tell you the truth I don't watch anything but HD.

Lastly you have to remember Cox is the distributor, so in most cases they are just putting out what they get from the network.

I will lay it this way. I live this world of RF. I am in the industry and understand it to a tee. People have to remember signal quality and TV's performance all play a factor.

Not all TV's are created Equal...
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nweibley @ 24th Oct 08:56PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

You're going to have a heck of a fight convincing me a Panasonic V10 is the problem.
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cableguy619 @ 25th Oct 02:04AM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

thats macro blocking

I have seen that more to be on the network side from my expereince. networks changing the rate shaping of their signals and not telling the MSO's they made the change causing issues at different times of the day. What I would do is write down the channels with issues and have Cox see if there is anythign in common.. Like 6 channels all in the same Freq or what not..
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anon @ 30th Oct 02:50AM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

After looking at the picture posted on page two, that picture looks like the issue my household was having with our 3250HD receiver a few days ago. A technician came out and meticulously checked this and that. He finally determined that we had a faulty cable box and swapped that one with another box of the same model that he had in his truck.

That replacement box works 100%.

Maybe your box is dying ?

Also, every once in a blue moon we'll experience the video becoming a blocky mess; we've had to unplug our boxes from the power outlet and then re-plug them into the outlet to fix that problem.
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BillRoland @ 30th Oct 04:08AM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

Well, not to stir up the hornets nest here, but I think what what is getting missed here is that nweibley and myself are not rank amateurs who are here to just complain about something. We both understand the basics of an HFC cable system, we both understand how to read and interpret signal levels, and we both know what we're seeing. What I think we both want is for our "High Definition" service to actually have high quality definition. nweibley obviously has a Panasonic Plasma HDTV, I myself have a Sony Trinitron CRT HDTV (and before anybody says "that's not an HDTV," yes it is, 1080i resolution), and my parents have a Samsung 1080p at their house. What I can say is that the FDC, RDC, and Tuner signal strength are all well within spec as is SNR. The problem I have is mostly with motion scenes macroblocking, and just a total lack of definition sometimes with even low motion scenes. The worst offenders for me are SciFi, History, CBS, ABC, NBC, and ESPN/ESPN2. I have also seen it on USA. I would also point out that this problem seems to have grown as the HD lineup has grown. I've observed the same issues on my CRT HDTV and on my parents LCD HDTV at their home. Believe me if I thought this had anything to do with signal problems I would have called for a truck roll long ago. I also find the explanation that its all the broadcaster's fault to be a little difficult to believe, but I'm sure I can go over to the DirecTV forum and find out, since their picture should be equally bad. Somehow I doubt I will find that.
--
"Don't steal. The government hates competition."
Beyond AM. Beyond FM. XM
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planetlowe @ 30th Oct 10:24AM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

They always try to blame the broadcaster but that argument can quickly be alleviated by plugging in an antenna and seeing a true HD signal that hasn't been compressed numerous times to try and and squeeze as many channels as possible into a fixed amount of bandwidth.

The HD channels on Cox have definitely gotten progressively worse. I love the fact that they are adding to their channel lineup but the decrease in quality is getting so bad I wish they would stop.
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nweibley @ 30th Oct 12:35PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

Thank you Bill.

DirecTV got into hot water when their customer base started noticing they were applying heavy handed compression to their feed. There is a detailed thread over on AVSForum that demonstrates the phenomenon which is extremely similar to what we're seeing here.

The difference is so far this seems to be mostly affecting the Cox Ocala/Gainesville market and the customer base is tiny compared to DirecTV's national audience, so the number of people who actually notice this is relatively small in comparison.

It's frustrating, and if I wasn't moving in a year or two I'd go through the hassle of switching to a sat provider. To put it bluntly I care most about college football, and it's pretty distracting to watch a runner's legs turn into little MPEG squares every time they get going. Not to mention our local Cox offices pump the volume on the channels up intolerably loud, on every single local commercial (Cox ads or Cox produced ads, they are all the same).

Really all I want is a Cox engineer who can get in touch with the headend and just ensure they're intending to do this and it's not a misconfigured encoder or modulator problem. I have seen these same feeds on my FIOS DVR from Tampa and I can confidently say the Cox feed doesn't hold a candle to the FIOS feed, so blaming the broadcaster is a crap excuse. The problem lies elsewhere.
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anon @ 30th Oct 07:53PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

I don't see the same issues you describe on the video side (using a Hitachi 51" HDTV and Philips HDTV 47" in VA).

The audio side I talked directly to someone about and was told the volume increase is part of marketing and it isn't going away. Basically the local adds will have the volume increased so if you are in another room you will still hear them.

This isn't too bad if you are using the speakers on the TV but when you are hooked directly from your STB to a digital audio receiver the extra sound is ridiculous.

I didn't believe this at first but then started noticing it not only with local Cox spots but also local car commercials, restaurants, and other businesses so for me this checks out.
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planetlowe @ 30th Oct 09:00PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

said by DDR329 :

I don't see the same issues you describe on the video side (using a Hitachi 51" HDTV and Philips HDTV 47" in VA).

The audio side I talked directly to someone about and was told the volume increase is part of marketing and it isn't going away. Basically the local adds will have the volume increased so if you are in another room you will still hear them.

This isn't too bad if you are using the speakers on the TV but when you are hooked directly from your STB to a digital audio receiver the extra sound is ridiculous.

I didn't believe this at first but then started noticing it not only with local Cox spots but also local car commercials, restaurants, and other businesses so for me this checks out.

That won't last long.

»www.insidescience.org/policy/red···f_tv_ads
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anon @ 9th Nov 07:54PM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

By any means, I'm not an engineer, nor am I an expert in the Video field. I've only worked at Cox as a CSR Video tech for about 1 yr 3 months. I've seen your problem in a few situations. Here in the east coast, particularly in NOVA I've heard of this and in the aptly named SOVA area I've heard of this. Although our areas have been upgraded, there are still some of those that still have issues like this. I'm going to have to agree -- if you want something done, you need to complain to Cox DIRECTLY. Log the service calls (we log EVERY service call here as long as you've placed a call in and requested a tech out -- I get numerous customers that state that they've had tech after tech and I go to my work order screen, to see that they've either only had a tech out *once* and it was last year, or they haven't had a tech in the last 2 or 3 months for the same problem). What I'm saying is if we're not out there, we won't know. Our techs here if we've had 2 to 3 service calls for the same issue, it gets escalated to a field tech or maintenance to check out the feed and monitor it. You would have contact with the field supervisors or the head end (I have had customers in DIRECT contract with our engineers and our head end people). If we don't get out there, we won't know. If you have that much of a problem, call us and get us out there so we can fix it, get the ball rolling, whatever we need to do. Its not going to do you any good speaking your problem on the forums --wait let me take that back--it does because you're at least getting the word out that you have a problem, just not to the right channels. I really hope you have already gotten this resolved...
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CoxTech1 @ 10th Nov 08:58AM:
Re: [CATV] Cox HD quality suffering from increased channels?

Please remember who is authorized to post on behalf of Cox:

»Cox HSI Forum FAQ »Who are the authorized Cox employees that provide support on this forum?
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