The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
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misterooga @ 3rd Nov 06:08PM:
The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
Just a public announcement that this is coming down: »www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4510/125/
And they even got the three-strike law.
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pegcitynet @ 3rd Nov 06:34PM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
Except that downloading content in Canada for personal use is completely protected by the Copyright act. Any attempt to charge people would likely be thrown out in Canada as unconstitutional. What's frightening is that this has the potential to usurp power from the Canadian courts, instead giving it to a free trade copyright authority run by the industry itself. This would allow you to be sued in USA courts for downloading (legally) in Canada with the judgement binding.
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AkFubar @ 3rd Nov 06:36PM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
oooooooo nnnnnnnoooooosssssss :hmm:
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pegcitynet @ 3rd Nov 06:37PM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
I've been publicizing this on my facebook.
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anon @ 3rd Nov 06:42PM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
said by pegcitynet :
Except that downloading content in Canada for personal use is completely protected by the Copyright act. Any attempt to charge people would likely be thrown out in Canada as unconstitutional. What's frightening is that this has the potential to usurp power from the Canadian courts, instead giving it to a free trade copyright authority run by the industry itself. This would allow you to be sued in USA courts for downloading (legally) in Canada with the judgement binding.
Umm no. If Canada does sign on as a signatory, it trumps our copyright laws. How many free lawyers out there will make charter challenges to the supreme court for you? Not many. So no, you are not "completely protected" if Canada signs on to this.
In addition, there is also 3rd party liability. This means that if Teksavvy didn't have a throttle, or actively block unauthorized content (this could include blocking access to websites like IsoHunt et al) then they will be held under 3rd party liability and sued along with you.
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misterooga @ 3rd Nov 06:43PM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
said by pegcitynet :
This would allow you to be sued in USA courts for downloading (legally) in Canada with the judgement binding.
Exactly. So all of the sudden, US RIAA could request that the said person be removed from Canada to be in court on US soil. And of course, upon entering US, the said Canadian would be already a criminal.
This already happens, of course...as was the case with some people who were tortured... It just means, with this law, using p2p can net you in the same boiling water as, say, suspected of being a terrorist.
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anon @ 3rd Nov 08:11PM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
This would make a great Quebec separation vote.
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Croaker @ 3rd Nov 08:29PM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
said by umm no :
In addition, there is also 3rd party liability. This means that if Teksavvy didn't have a throttle, or actively block unauthorized content (this could include blocking access to websites like IsoHunt et al) then they will be held under 3rd party liability and sued along with you.
Ah, Hollywood is correcting the error in the DMCA regarding safe harbor. Bet the US carriers, Youtube, Bing, and all will accept this. NOT!
You must have read this wrong as the tech and telecom industries are going to fight to keep their safe harbor. And, they have considerably more lobbying clout than Hollywood. No one messes with Ma Bell!
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CanerisErik @ 3rd Nov 08:48PM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
said by Croaker :said by umm no :
In addition, there is also 3rd party liability. This means that if Teksavvy didn't have a throttle, or actively block unauthorized content (this could include blocking access to websites like IsoHunt et al) then they will be held under 3rd party liability and sued along with you.
Ah, Hollywood is correcting the error in the DMCA regarding safe harbor. Bet the US carriers, Youtube, Bing, and all will accept this. NOT!
You must have read this wrong as the tech and telecom industries are going to fight to keep their safe harbor. And, they have considerably more lobbying clout than Hollywood. No one messes with Ma Bell!
Precisely.
--
Erik - Caneris Inc.
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Big Nose @ 3rd Nov 08:55PM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
Of course with a Conservative government in power Canada will lay down and do whatever America tells us to do.
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olebiker @ 3rd Nov 09:34PM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
And so the corporations now run the world in secret. God I am glad that I am not young and starting out as the future looks like it sucks.
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sedmonds @ 3rd Nov 10:02PM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
said by pegcitynet :
Except that downloading content in Canada for personal use is completely protected by the Copyright act. Any attempt to charge people would likely be thrown out in Canada as unconstitutional. What's frightening is that this has the potential to usurp power from the Canadian courts, instead giving it to a free trade copyright authority run by the industry itself. This would allow you to be sued in USA courts for downloading (legally) in Canada with the judgement binding.
Copyright laws are not part of the constitution, and as such are not the basis for a challenge to the constitutional validity of any laws Parliament passes in the process of implementing ACTA.
You can already be sued in the US if you engage in copyright distribution in the US. If you've uploaded to a computer or through lines physically located in the US, you've committed an offence in the United States and under the jurisdiction of United States courts. It is, however, more difficult for the companies of the RIAA and MPAA to prosecute and collect these cases than focusing on domestic efforts. A judgement may be entered, in absentia, in a US court but it is less clear whether or not a Canadian court would enforce that judgement inside Canada. ACTA would simplify this in a few ways - copyright laws would be more consistent between nations and because of this our courts would have less justification not to enforce the US court judgement under existing laws and policies, and more significantly ACTA has provisions for international prosecution.
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MaynardKrebs @ 3rd Nov 10:16PM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
said by sedmonds :said by pegcitynet :
Except that downloading content in Canada for personal use is completely protected by the Copyright act. Any attempt to charge people would likely be thrown out in Canada as unconstitutional. What's frightening is that this has the potential to usurp power from the Canadian courts, instead giving it to a free trade copyright authority run by the industry itself. This would allow you to be sued in USA courts for downloading (legally) in Canada with the judgement binding.
Copyright laws are not part of the constitution, and as such are not the basis for a challenge to the constitutional validity of any laws Parliament passes in the process of implementing ACTA.
You can already be sued in the US if you engage in copyright distribution in the US. If you've uploaded to a computer or through lines physically located in the US, you've committed an offence in the United States and under the jurisdiction of United States courts. It is, however, more difficult for the companies of the RIAA and MPAA to prosecute and collect these cases than focusing on domestic efforts. A judgement may be entered, in absentia, in a US court but it is less clear whether or not a Canadian court would enforce that judgement inside Canada. ACTA would simplify this in a few ways - copyright laws would be more consistent between nations and because of this our courts would have less justification not to enforce the US court judgement under existing laws and policies, and more significantly ACTA has provisions for international prosecution.
Much of Canada's 'domestic' internet traffic is routed via the USA.
Most of the time flights from Toronto to Vancouver are routed via US airspace to save fuel. Download a video or music file and the xxIA's of Hollywood will get some hot dog fighter pilot sic'd on your Air Canada flight to force it down in Minneapolis so you can be taken into custody.
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anon @ 3rd Nov 11:44PM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
said by Croaker :said by umm no :
In addition, there is also 3rd party liability. This means that if Teksavvy didn't have a throttle, or actively block unauthorized content (this could include blocking access to websites like IsoHunt et al) then they will be held under 3rd party liability and sued along with you.
You must have read this wrong
Ma Bell aside, no I did not read this wrong:
»www.efa.org.au/2009/11/04/acta-c···orrying/
quote:
3. Restrictions on limitations to 3rd party liability (ie. limited safe harbour rules for ISPs). For example, in order for ISPs to qualify for a safe harbour, they would be required [to] establish policies to deter unauthorized storage and transmission of IP infringing content. Provisions are modeled under the U.S.-Korea Free Trade Agreement, namely Article 18.10.30. They include policies to terminate subscribers in appropriate circumstances. Notice-and-takedown, which is not currently the law in Canada nor a requirement under WIPO, would also be an ACTA requirement.
iiNet in AUS (an aussie ISP like TSI) is being sued now and it is currently being played out in court (in case you haven't been following international news)
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Croaker @ 4th Nov 07:23AM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
said by umm no :
Ma Bell aside, no I did not read this wrong:
Look, I don't have a beef with you. The ACTA provisions mirror the DMCA is all I was trying to get at. If they don't, there's no way this will pass in the US. The telecom lobby is second to none and more than able to out spend Hollywood.
Also, our having a minority government, makes the passage of ACTA in it's current form impossible even if the Conservatives wanted to. Which they don't by the way...
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El Quintron @ 4th Nov 10:34AM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
In the end what will happen in the short term is an escalation of encryption and obfuscation.
As long as TSi discloses to me that it is unable to provide any type of privacy on their network, then I'm aware I must take steps to protect myself from my ISP.
At which point this creates a situation where Copywrong agents need to obtain a warrant in order to inspect my traffic.
I would more or less bet on their agents (copyright infringement contractors) moving on to easier targets at that point.
I feel its unfortunate that I would choose to protect myself by making a predator move to an easier target but that's usually how it ends up anyways.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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MaynardKrebs @ 4th Nov 10:46AM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
said by El Quintron :
In the end what will happen in the short term is an escalation of encryption and obfuscation.
As long as TSi discloses to me that it is unable to provide any type of privacy on their network, then I'm aware I must take steps to protect myself from my ISP.
It's probably best to begin using this type of service now simply from a privacy point of view, never mind waiting for ACTA to kick in.
They are watching and recording your every move right now anyway.
Tinfoil Hat On/
NSA is building a $1.5 Billion data center in Utah now to archive and sift through every bit of data that crosses the US border. This is a complementary and similar sized data center to another one currently under construction in Texas.
Don't think that the data won't be used against you someday in some way.
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DabberDan @ 4th Nov 11:12AM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
said by MaynardKrebs :said by El Quintron :
In the end what will happen in the short term is an escalation of encryption and obfuscation.
As long as TSi discloses to me that it is unable to provide any type of privacy on their network, then I'm aware I must take steps to protect myself from my ISP.
It's probably best to begin using this type of service now simply from a privacy point of view, never mind waiting for ACTA to kick in.
Would you care to explain how this would be done?
For this example, let's use a VPN provider. Would he at some point, due to ACTA, have to keep all data going over his service thus rendering the activity pointless?
Ha! Unless the VPN service is from a country that didn't sign on?
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Croaker @ 4th Nov 11:16AM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
said by El Quintron :
At which point this creates a situation where Copywrong agents need to obtain a warrant in order to inspect my traffic.
Depends on the passage of Lawful Access (bill C-27?). In it, law enforcement will not need judicial oversight in order to get information from your ISP.
Also, how long will it be before we get a law requiring the disclosure of encryption keys similar to the UK statute.
Better to stop this madness now by contacting your MP and voicing your displeasure with Canada's position to ACTA.
Thank god with have a minority government. At least they need to pretend to give a damn about what the voter wants!
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El Quintron @ 4th Nov 11:22AM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
But, and to the above;
The way in which copyright is enforced right now, is that the job of collecting infringing IPs is farmed out to contractors busting you whilst infringing.
If they can't bust you immediately they'll move on to an easier target.
That's my original point.
Not that they won't want laws allowing them to come after us (they do) its just the economic realities of enforcement contracting make it more viable for the contractor to go after a "sure bust" rather than conducting a lenghty investigation.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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Croaker @ 4th Nov 11:31AM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
I follow.
What I'm saying is that they'll simply send out settlement offers, say at $3500, to every one including the dead.
Think of it as our new and improved levy.
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El Quintron @ 4th Nov 11:50AM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
said by DabberDan :
Would you care to explain how this would be done?
My (un)educated guess would be this:
Judicial authorities (Gov, Police) would care about your browsing history and social networking history.
The MAFIAA would care about file sharing. So you would probably need to adopt something to hide your tracks there; Usenet SSL maybe?
Thirdly, I would say use a good strong Open Source encryption format should you computer's hard drive fall into the wrong hands.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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chronoss2009 @ 4th Nov 12:40PM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
a few lessons about law , as is the acta agreement would in fact be ilegal to enforce in Canada,
go read up on the charter of rights and freedoms and you will see why. AND trust me they gonnna have a awful time getting changes done to the charter
don't forget also that NDP is keeping hte govt in power and that all both the NDP leader and the liberal leader are part of the IP lobby movement ( both are in writers unions whom are pro holly wood in IP stances )
and note that the new copyright bill coming will definately screw the heck out of the law(s) that currently protect you/me and end the levy so they can start lawsuits. I want part of that 450 million they got form it back if so.
and this is and would be tantamount to a warrantless search and seizure of my data.
IF they think your up to somehting goto a damn judge if we all a sudden dont need judges lets get rid a them and proclaim the CEOS of the country as the only people able to vote
we either have democracy that we fought for in worlds wars 1 and 2 or we don't
lets quit the pissing around with corporate rights.
Me thinks some old men need a smack right upside the fucking head
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MaynardKrebs @ 4th Nov 12:55PM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
said by chronoss2009 :
a few lessons about law , as is the acta agreement would in fact be ilegal to enforce in Canada,
go read up on the charter of rights and freedoms and you will see why. AND trust me they gonnna have a awful time getting changes done to the charter
don't forget also that NDP is keeping hte govt in power and that all both the NDP leader and the liberal leader are part of the IP lobby movement ( both are in writers unions whom are pro holly wood in IP stances )
and note that the new copyright bill coming will definately screw the heck out of the law(s) that currently protect you/me and end the levy so they can start lawsuits. I want part of that 450 million they got form it back if so.
and this is and would be tantamount to a warrantless search and seizure of my data.
IF they think your up to somehting goto a damn judge if we all a sudden dont need judges lets get rid a them and proclaim the CEOS of the country as the only people able to vote
we either have democracy that we fought for in worlds wars 1 and 2 or we don't
lets quit the pissing around with corporate rights.
Me thinks some old men need a smack right upside the fucking head
Despite the occasional random nature of your posts, I think that you are on to something with respect to the Charter. The thoughtless assignment of our rights to international corporations and the abrogation of our rights to governments abroad is clearly not what the Charter permits.
...raising a cold frosty one to Trudeau for the Charter...
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GyroCaptain @ 4th Nov 01:55PM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
said by Big Nose :
Of course with a Conservative government in power Canada will lay down and do whatever America tells us to do.
Bwahahaha. You have it backwards. LIEberals will rat you out in Ontario far far sooner than the Cons ever will.
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chronoss2009 @ 4th Nov 02:02PM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
no geist had a deal with a bunch a liberals and NDP
then iggy came to power and they back tracked on it en masse.
The conservatives also brought you Bill c61, what's there excuse?
what is the excuse of going to ctv.ca and seeing whats at the bottom of the website and releasing your news there and WHOSE part of that site ? BCE? Throttling , caps ?
get the big picture son. and know that BIG players in the USA are part of EVERY ISP here as much as they are legally allowed and thats usually enough to swing the company the direction they want.
AND YOU PEOPLE want them to have more control by giving that power directly to the conservatives.
We need in that setting and elected CRTC OR one proportional to the sitting membership in the house of commons.
DO NOT ever tell me the conservatives are pro customer and pro consumer OMG the arrogance of such minds in this country is just ...how are you able to cross a street with out that conservative telling you when where and how?
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Croaker @ 4th Nov 02:03PM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
The liberals started Lawful Access (ISP disclosures without court oversight) and Copyright reform (C-60?) when they were last in power.
Hopefully, when more people equate this nonsense to making iPods illegal - it'll get more play.
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chronoss2009 @ 4th Nov 02:04PM:
Re: The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
not the point were talking about now, your effectively defending the cons cause they did it too.
BOTH are bad and i htink the liberals might have learned to get power they have to listen to people. HARPER cant do that which is why he will never get a majority govt he cant play nice. AND tell me one conservative republican govt that has ever been rpo consumer and pro customer and ill yell out my window that im gay as a fruit cause its never happened EVER. PRO INDUSTRY PRO IP PRO OIL PRO BIG BUSINESS PRO GREED
screw you screw unions screw me screw your mother your dad yoru fmailly so they can get bribed off at election time.
BRIBED OFF LIKE they tried with CADMAN a dying man.
the secret doc in question which many of you dont have would make ALL p2p software that isnt used by a liscned industry illegal
aka all your ftp programs , you torrent programs news group programs etc ITS very very disruptive and you might even say browsers that allow streaming without DRM in it. IT puts DRM right into your arse.
AND im still calling anyone doing this sort of behind the scenes crap a traitor , just like they say with cameras if you got nothing to hide why hide. PERFECT use there own shit against them.
IF its a treaty SHOW US EVERYTHING else its treason you cant have law without debate over it PERIOD
last i checked its still democracy. YOUR CONS are presiding over a UNDEMOCRATIC treaty and using UNDEMOCRATIC moves. That forget about our charter i wonder what the UN charter also has to say about such blatant disregard for rights.
My grandfather fought in WW1 and WW2 for us to have these rights not get some wanker bankers and greedy hollywood shrub nubs to take them away for a buck.
IF your so worried about piracy fraking lower prices and make htings better available to people.
GOOD lord ya cant beat piracy with a 30$ CDR liek i saw in 2005 at futureshop
AINT GOING TO HAPPEN and it puts the whole thing in maffia and gangs hands and then you start seeing money for it.
Think alcohol........1930's
it cost me almost 1$ now for a blank cdr wihtout a case
without labels
why should a movie over the net where i use bit torrent effectively paying for distribution cost more then 50cents
they have taken soooo long to get there that its now acta or die
instead a having done the right thing 12 years ago they waited and let 2 generations get schooled in free with a levy
you take that way your gonna see massive losses in sales i give up on them there is no hope.
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