If ACTA get's passed are we EFF YOU SEE KAYED? Page 2
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El Quintron @ 6th Nov 10:50PM:
Re: If ACTA get's passed are we EFF YOU SEE KAYED?
said by Croaker :
It very much is the end of the world because we will have left it worse for the next generation.
There is no need to criminalize the citizenship. There is no need to protect multi-nationals from our own entrepreneurs. Nothing in our constitution says that only big business is allowed to prosper.
Copyright is particularly evil in that it controls the thoughts and expression of unborn citizens. Imagine, we provide equal employment opportunity to all yet reserve the right of expression to a few. Simply because they were born before them. Future generations are forever precluded from calling a mouse Mickey. What right do we have to constrain future generations of society thusly? It's madness.
Although I agree with what your saying (see my most recent post)
History has shown that laws like this are largely ineffective at curbing the behaviors they criminalize, the war on drugs being a perfect example of this.
I think at this point we should probably start comparing this to another war on drugs because it looks like what we're going to get is a criminalization of a large segment of the population for doing something that's completely acceptable in a responsible society.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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Abattoir @ 6th Nov 10:51PM:
Re: If ACTA get's passed are we EFF YOU SEE KAYED?
said by Croaker :
This is consistent with I've said. Why you need to be a dick err, pedant is beyond me.
No reason to get nasty. I've responded as I have because it's nothing like what you've said. If we're going to fight this thing, we need to truly understand what we're up against, and the stuff you've been saying doesn't help. Based on what you've just said, once this treaty is signed, we might as well just give up because it's a done deal.
What we need to realize is that this treaty will, in all likelihood, be signed, with or without our consent. It isn't going to be pretty. Our best hope is to make sure it is never ratified in Parliament. We need to keep the pressure on constantly, make sure our elected reps know this treaty is unacceptable for Canada.
said by Croaker :
You must realize that a majority government will pass this easily if it's allowed to get that far. This is why we must communicate disapproval while parties are jockeying for favor.
This is very much something to worry about NOW. The last thing the IP lobby needs is yet another agreement to be ratified which goes against our national interest.
Couldn't agree with you more. If we had a Cons majority right now I wouldn't have much hope at all in stopping this train.
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Croaker @ 7th Nov 12:16AM:
Re: If ACTA get's passed are we EFF YOU SEE KAYED?
said by Abattoir :
No reason to get nasty. [...] Based on what you've just said, once this treaty is signed, we might as well just give up because it's a done deal.
[...]
If we had a Cons majority right now I wouldn't have much hope at all in stopping this train.
Fair enough. I'll be civil.
I don't have the same faith you have and would rather not have it signed to begin with. Then we can simply continue with our current copyright reform process.
For the record, we've been screwed by majority governments of all parties. I don't really blame one more than the other. The Liberals had repressive copyright legislation die in parliament and the lawful access law passing in the house was penned by them. Be careful what you wish for.
Me, I want minorities for as long as we can have 'em. Less damage is incurred that way...
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Abattoir @ 7th Nov 10:08AM:
Re: If ACTA get's passed are we EFF YOU SEE KAYED?
said by Croaker :
I don't have the same faith you have and would rather not have it signed to begin with. Then we can simply continue with our current copyright reform process.
I would rather that our Government came to their collective senses and saw that this is a horrible thing for Canada, but I don't have any faith that will happen. The writing is on the wall - this treaty will be signed. The question remains - what are we going to do about it?
I've been thinking about using a reductio ad absurdum (»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum) argument to show how ridiculous this whole 'graduated response' idea is. We hear all the time about how politicians and businesses commit copyright infringement, usually inadvertently due to misunderstanding copyright. You don't have to look very far - look at the issue between the Globe & the AG just this last week, or the Conservative Party's use of various media clips during election campaigns (i.e. since 2006).
What I'm thinking of is setting up a website that allows members of the public to report instances of a) copyright infringement, or b) abuse of copyright. Maybe some kind of rudimentary voting or review system to help ensure reliability. We should be able to show, in short order, how many politicians, political parties, and businesses should lose their internet access due to a 3-strikes system. Perhaps a counter to show how many years are left in their virtual internet sentence.
Just a thought. I don't have all of the skills needed to set this up, but I thought I'd throw it out there for some feedback.
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chronoss2009 @ 7th Nov 01:36PM:
Re: If ACTA get's passed are we EFF YOU SEE KAYED?
ahh my friends ACTA is just or was just the warm up to the new order
the gordon brown GLOBAL GOVT TAX movement where you do as they say mmmmkay.
Coming up next your rights taken away by some foreign global govt
your health care taken away by this govt
you will be forced to get cameras like the UK in your homes
have them outside EVERYWHERE
and yes folks YOU CANT DO SHIT ABOUT IT.
So get writing your letters and all that jazz and in the end when your reaching for the soap dont say i didnt warn ya this is gonna end badly.
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anon @ 7th Nov 01:42PM:
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vintagewino @ 7th Nov 02:06PM:
Re: If ACTA get's passed are we EFF YOU SEE KAYED?
Short answer: yes.
When meetings have to be held in secret behind closed doors, you know damned well palms are being greased. Our politicians just don't have the balls to stand up and say "NO!".
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MaynardKrebs @ 7th Nov 04:58PM:
Re: If ACTA get's passed are we EFF YOU SEE KAYED?
said by El Quintron :
History has shown that laws like this are largely ineffective at curbing the behaviors they criminalize, the war on drugs being a perfect example of this.
But they will be effective in filling all the NEW prisons ReichsChancellor Harper wants to build.
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Big Nose @ 7th Nov 05:48PM:
Re: If ACTA get's passed are we EFF YOU SEE KAYED?
The Conservative Party of Canada will gladly pass this for two reasons:
1) America wants it.
2) Corporations want it.
Remember who the PC party answers to come next election.
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cpsycho @ 7th Nov 10:37PM:
Re: If ACTA get's passed are we EFF YOU SEE KAYED?
The only way this will stop is with an election. This needs to be brought out into the open. This who thing makes bill c-61 look like a slap on the wrist.
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vintagewino @ 7th Nov 10:59PM:
Re: If ACTA get's passed are we EFF YOU SEE KAYED?
said by cpsycho :
The only way this will stop is with an election. This needs to be brought out into the open. This who thing makes bill c-61 look like a slap on the wrist.
Agreed, BUT...
the polls recently have shown George W. Harper's popularity has "improved" (read: Iggy's popularity has dropped) to the point where Harper is approaching a majority. The Deities help us all!!
Frankly, our biggest problem is politicians stay in power w-a-a-a-y-y-y too long. The longer they're in, the better the chance of them being "persuaded to the dark side". Maybe there should be consideration that the the candidate can only serve a finite time (maybe 2 terms?).
Worse still, the Party can jerk the members' chains to tow the party's wishes. Rare is the member who crosses the floor to be an independent.
A fundamental change in the way Parliament works would have to be brought about, and you KNOW the likelihood of THAT!! :(
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An_Onymous @ 7th Nov 11:45PM:
Re: If ACTA get's passed are we EFF YOU SEE KAYED?
If you look at the poll numbers from here (full history on site) »www.electionalmanac.com/canada/polls.php
The latest numbers looks pretty similar to the 2008 results. There is almost no point of having yet another election.
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anon @ 8th Nov 06:19PM:
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freejazz_RdJ @ 8th Nov 09:04PM:
Re: If ACTA get's passed are we EFF YOU SEE KAYED?
ACTA is the most insane things ever. In particular, three strikes is silly. Most people will simply sign up with another provider after their disconnection or use an alias. If they make some registry of banned internet users, who will administer it? Will we be forced to undergo a ban check and provide photo ID to establish an internet connection? How much will these measures increase the cost of broadband?
I suggest a ban on thought piracy. If I have a copyrighted thought 3 times, I'm banned from thinking for a year. We should also do the same for singing copyrighted songs in the shower... no showers or musical enjoyment for 1 year if caught 3 times. Same should apply to writing. /end sarcasm.
What concerns me more from a civil liberties standpoint is what steps will be taken to enforce this, especially at the border. My son, who is a respectable guy married to another respectable guy was stopped at the border and his laptop seized last year for having same-sex porn when returning from SanFran. Nothing illegal, just vanilla gay porn. But CBSA needed to seize it to determine that there wasn't anything wrong illegal about it, because all queer people are also doing other evil things. A nice lady agent eventually convinced the hardass guy to return it to them and they were on their way, but probably flagged somehow now.
Will ACTA mean that the Gov't will go through your music and videos now to see if they're legit? Check you Kindle to see if you've still got your copy of 1984?
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Croaker @ 8th Nov 11:31PM:
Re: If ACTA get's passed are we EFF YOU SEE KAYED?
said by freejazz_RdJ :
[...]Will we be forced to undergo a ban check and provide photo ID to establish an internet connection? How much will these measures increase the cost of broadband?
Yes, a license will be required in order to access the internet. A single family member (dead or alive) misusing the connection will result in everyone (e.g. family household) losing access. Costs will go up of course. Luckily, in Canada, we're already accustomed to paying more for less telecom every year.
said by freejazz_RdJ :
I suggest a ban on thought piracy. If I have a copyrighted thought 3 times, I'm banned from thinking for a year. [...]
The copyright industry wants to go per use now that technology allows it. It's much better for business if they charge you every time rather than one time. These are middle men (distributors) without imagination and quite psychotic. They can't be reasoned with and they see no bounds.
said by freejazz_RdJ :
[...]
Will ACTA mean that the Gov't will go through your music and videos now to see if they're legit? Check you Kindle to see if you've still got your copy of 1984?
Yes. Anything can be seized and citizens can be detained. Thank the US Patriot Act for that. ACTA simply extends these practices globally.
Tell me, did you ever dream we'd need to take our shoes off before boarding an aircraft? My kids won't know of a time where a passport was not needed to go shopping over the bridge in Cornwall. We're all a lot less secure from government interference than we were 20 years ago. We've lost our liberty in the name of security...
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Vomio @ 8th Nov 11:51PM:
Re: If ACTA get's passed are we EFF YOU SEE KAYED?
More opinion:
»arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news···wide.ars
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cpsycho @ 9th Nov 01:02PM:
Re: If ACTA get's passed are we EFF YOU SEE KAYED?
Whats even more retarded, you can hijack mac addresses. Then your on the hook for someone else downloading IP content.
You visit some site.
They harvest your mac address.
They use it for a day.
They get noticed, but after that day they change to another address.
The authorities scan the net and find you.
Blame you.
You lose net.
I know I had a little script on my webpage that banned by mac address.
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Vomio @ 9th Nov 01:42PM:
Re: If ACTA get's passed are we EFF YOU SEE KAYED?
Agreed, it is trivial to change the apparent mac on most things.
There are so many ways to outwit such rules for one so inclined that it really makes any case automatically have reasonable doubt.
That is why the "three strikes" rule has to take place on alleged contravention, because actual indisputable proof is almost impossible to provide.
Once again it proves that the people drafting the legislation have no real clue about the technology involved and are driven by just a dead corporate/fascist dream, which is rapidly looking to the rest of the world like a police state nightmare complete with witch hunts.
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Spike @ 9th Nov 02:38PM:
Re: If ACTA get's passed are we EFF YOU SEE KAYED?
So what about all the poor souls that had their cable modem MAC cloned? They going to lose their internet for a year too?
Lets not forget that WPA-TKIP has been hacked. Devices like the DS/PSP cannot even use your WIFI anymore if you want a currently secured access point.
This copyright policy laundering has got to go.
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Abattoir @ 9th Nov 04:18PM:
Re: If ACTA get's passed are we EFF YOU SEE KAYED?
said by Spike :
Lets not forget that WPA-TKIP has been hacked. Devices like the DS/PSP cannot even use your WIFI anymore if you want a currently secured access point.
The hack for WPA-TKIP to date is quite limited, and is not realistically capable of breaking into an encrypted network. WPA-AES and WPA2 are unaffected. Consumers still have lots of options.
That said, WEP is still used in many places, despite the fact that it has been thoroughly hacked...
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Vomio @ 9th Nov 06:06PM:
Re: If ACTA get's passed are we EFF YOU SEE KAYED?
said by Abattoir :
That said, WEP is still used in many places, despite the fact that it has been thoroughly hacked...
Judging from what I see out my window Bell is still enabling WEP as the default security on the 2wire modems.
IIRC wireless is also enabled by default.
Pretty sad when you think about it, I'm sure most people are under the mistaken belief they are secure. Why would they worry? They have Bell Security Packages. :-(
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