Roadrunner Xtreme? - Warning letters detail Time Warner tier
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Roadrunner Xtreme?
Warning letters detail Time Warner tier
(old news - 03:08PM Friday Apr 18 2003)
tags: bandwidth · cable
Much like the other large cable broadband providers, Time Warner/Roadrunner has been mailing out warning letters and suggesting that 'bandwidth hogs' upgrade their service to a new, faster tier. One of our users sends us this letter from Time Warner in Lincoln Nebraska, which suggests that those who consume serious bandwidth (download more than 15 GB/month) might be better served by upgrading to their new "Road Runner Xtreme" service tier. The new tier clocks in at a hefty $79.95 per month, and offers users 3Mbps downstream and 512 Kbps up, with a 40GB per month download limit. If customers go above that limit, they're charged ten dollars for every 5 gigabytes above the monthly download limit they travel. (Roadrunner in Nebraska offers up more detail via their on-line bandwidth usage policy).

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soothsayer15 @ 18th Apr 03:16PM:
Whine and Complain

I know some people will whine and complain but this offer is more than fair, especially for the price. RR even went the extra mile of detailing for some of you who like to Knitpick. The usage they gave is well with reason. I don't wanna hear stupid complaints about pop ups and spam, they get no where near 40 gigs a month.
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connellyg @ 18th Apr 03:17PM:
$79.95

how much is $79.95 in british pounds
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soothsayer15 @ 18th Apr 03:19PM:
Re: $79.95

At rates based off today 50.9 pounds. Current rate is $1.57 dollars equal one british pound.
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dib22 @ 18th Apr 03:20PM:
Re: $79.95

79.99 US Dollar = 50.93931 British Pound
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BliZZardX @ 18th Apr 03:24PM:
Re: Whine and Complain

Um... well I'm jealous of the 40gb download caps :[
My ISP offers 20GB combined and $7.95/GB. They won't charge more than $30 for bandwidth usage.
Card profile (DSL) is 3488/800

Almost similar.. wish we had more bandwidth though
--
[Join Team Discovery!]
#SympaticoSucks on EFnet for all your Sympatico Rants
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morbo @ 18th Apr 03:24PM:
Re: Whine and Complain

said by soothsayer15:
I don't wanna hear stupid complaints about pop ups and spam, they get no where near 40 gigs a month.


ok mom. thanks for telling us what we can and can't post.
--
We'll be incredibly lucky to make it out of this decade without an attack that dwarfs 9/11 due to the current U.S. led war.
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Julio @ 18th Apr 03:25PM:
not in my city

they sure as hell better not try this in New York City cause we wont take this. They better hope i dont get one of those letters or else i will go w/ OOL or Cablevision IO cable or RCN.
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connellyg @ 18th Apr 03:30PM:
Re: $79.95

Well if you ask me that sounds like a good deal, i pay have that for

600/128

and would happily pay for that speed
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soothsayer15 @ 18th Apr 03:34PM:
Re: Whine and Complain

Everyone has the right to post, but everytime something about bandwidth usage comes some says something idiotic like, "Well if they gonna put bandwidth caps on me they better stop me from receiveing pop ups." or my favorite "Then they better stop spam from coming to my mail box." PopUp ads are annoying but they're not bandwidth killers unless you're real heavy into porn pop up pages. And ask for spam unless you just download all your spam it's a non issue. Some people try to make something from nothing.
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UltimateTech @ 18th Apr 03:42PM:
Woah

151 Gigs a month?!? damn thats a lot! :D
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GTaylor @ 18th Apr 03:50PM:
Re: Whine and Complain

Isn't this the same ISP thats considered "Very spam friendly"?

Glad to see where their priorities are.
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FLECOM @ 18th Apr 03:52PM:
err

ah... so if you max out this connection for a month it only comes down to an affordable $1943.95/mo o_O

somone correct me if my math is wrong
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Sarge_0321 @ 18th Apr 03:58PM:
What a Joke!

All that more quickly that you can achieve the CAP. What a load of crap? No wonder why 42% of Americans don't give a rat's ass!

And for what they listed that you can do on "regular" service. Can you accomplish ALL of those on the reg service? OR just one? Like send all that e-mail and listen to 133 hrs of music. OR just take your pick?
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murdok6100 @ 18th Apr 04:03PM:
Re: Whine and Complain

said by soothsayer15:
Everyone has the right to post, but everytime something about bandwidth usage comes some says something idiotic like, "Well if they gonna put bandwidth caps on me they better stop me from receiveing pop ups." or my favorite "Then they better stop spam from coming to my mail box." PopUp ads are annoying but they're not bandwidth killers unless you're real heavy into porn pop up pages. And ask for spam unless you just download all your spam it's a non issue. Some people try to make something from nothing.


While I agree that this offer is more than reasonable, I still have to say that what it all boils down to is that people will pay to receive spam.

It may only be in the fractions of a cent, but the idea of paying for something one hates is unsettling, no matter how minute it may seem.

At least thats why I think people have the 'OL "Then they better stop spam from coming to my mail box." attitude.

I don't share that view, but I could "possibly" see where some folks are coming from.

murdok610
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Gts @ 18th Apr 04:04PM:
Re: not in my city

i agree with you, if RR sent me a letter like that i would cancel all my services, i pay roughly 3 DTVs which have dbest and roadrunner, which is around 200ish. I can get DSL if need be and get DishTV or DirectTV.

what people dont seem to understand is, when you signed up for the service they said "UNLIMITED INTERNET" now they're really just saying "its unlimited to get to the internet, but what you do with it, it's metered" in a round about way. i could of put it better but im tired and the brain doesnt want to give a great example haha!

but seriously only reason why RR would do this is because of AOL loses. i wouldnt be surprised if RR would increase the prices now.
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mikepd @ 18th Apr 04:08PM:
Well, all I can say is those that are in OOL's

service area better hope Dolan doesn't sell to Time-Warner as has been mentioned on the front page here!

»Time Warner Cablevision?
--
Always Reach Beyond Your Grasp
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moonpuppy @ 18th Apr 04:18PM:
Re: Whine and Complain

Fine, you have you point.

But, what about a lower tier for those who don't use it as much such as Joe Email and Sally Spreadsheet?
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warcorp @ 18th Apr 04:21PM:
Re: err

Flecom, yeah, thats about right...100% line saturation for 30days on a 3mbit line is ~995GB - 40GB in plan=955GB

995/5*10+79.95= $1989.95
Thats 995GB / 5GB @ 10$ per + monthly fee...
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blestina @ 18th Apr 04:21PM:
This is CRAP!!

UNLIMITED Internet means UNLIMTED!!!
CAPS are CRAP and so are TIERS!!!
Wake up, this is a load of SHIT!!!
We are already paying tooooo muchhhhhh for tooooo litttttttle...
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dantest24 @ 18th Apr 04:28PM:
If people unite and cancel their account

they would forget all about this tier crap. I will definitely cancel my account if they ever try this. I like my internet but, I don't need it that bad.
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GTaylor @ 18th Apr 04:30PM:
Re: Whine and Complain

Joe E-mail and Sally Spreadsheet do have a lower tier. It's called dial-up.

What this boils down to is what's RR's angle: To remove users who use far too much bandwidth? Or a PR attempt to shame high-bandwidth users in an attempt to restrict access, thereby increasing profits.

Myself, I'd exceed the 15 gig (But not Cox's 30 gig) policy, but I still remember the Bells pulling a similiar stunt in 1997 by restricting the hours on-line per month at 150, hence why I find this trend very disturbing.
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dsless @ 18th Apr 04:30PM:
Re: This is CRAP!!

Hey try to download that much info on dialup only... That is all I have.......
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Kip patterson @ 18th Apr 04:53PM:
The Meaning of Unlimited

If you want to talk about 47 ohm resistors, no one has an issue with what an ohm is because it is defined by international treaty.

"Unlimited" has no such definition.

If you read earlier TOS, etc from RR you will see that they have always had a restriction on the amount of data that can be transferred. It was written in pretty ambiguous language, but it was always there. If you understand the economics of the business you surely understand that RR cannot sell 151 gigabytes for $44.95, and never intended to.

All RR has done is define what is too much usage, for which I applaud them. The same thing that colo's and hosting houses have done for years. The same thing that suppliers of T1's, DS3's, OC-12's do, including the firms that supply the bandwidth to RR.
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SoulStorm @ 18th Apr 04:56PM:
Damn

That's where I live! Guess I better pay more attention to what I do online. Damn... I hate having to worry about how much data I have thrown around every time I want to do something online. Yeah 15 GB is a lot, but I never had to worry about a monthly cap before.

Hell, the lowest business class tier is less and doesn't have restrictions like this. Yeah, it's slower, but at least you aren't capped per month!
[text was edited by author 2003-04-18 17:05:49]

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dmoisan @ 18th Apr 05:06PM:
How do you meter bandwidth at your house?

I just came to DSL from a dial-up account that let me have 100 hours a month without an extra charge. I used utilities and scripts to estimate my usage so as not to go over (and let me have a bandwidth-fest at the end of the month to use up my hours!)

I'm on DSL now via a SOHO router, and I have no bandwidth stats. My router's firmware doesn't have such a function, and so far as I know, none of the cheap routers that Joe Quake would use have these stats ("15G received in last 30 days").

More to the point, my ISP (VZ) doesn't have stats to the end user either. If an ISP is going to whine about bandwidth, it should be able to give the user some stats via the same page that he or she maintains the account at.

No fair for the ISP to run into service problems and then pull something out of its hat to beat over the user's head. Better for Joe Quake to see that maybe he should put off that one extra warez ISO for a few weeks.

(I have the same complaint with VZ WRT web space bandwidth stats, but that's another thread.)

Take care,

Dave
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anon @ 18th Apr 05:08PM:
Re: If people unite and cancel their account

Of course the only people that are exceeding these limits are either downloading illegal music/movies or complete and total porn freaks.
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scarney @ 18th Apr 05:24PM:
$

i would happily pay that amount for those numbers!.
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jolted @ 18th Apr 05:31PM:
Re: How do you meter bandwidth at your house?

Well its like ther cellular industry I suppose reneging on its free nights and weekends by playing with the definition of night and weekend, and capping it off in some cases... I think in general I could understand some caps but they should be high and the user should be made aware of them.. A great way to eat a cap would be streaming audio for a month using your highspeed access for a background, or doing telecommuting with remote access software... and users should be made of aware of this beforehand.. and have websites and software to tell what their usage is.... unlimited service is going the way of the do-do and well all be paying per hour or per meg unfortunately, which in the end will ruin consumer interest in the internet...

-John
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wdoerr @ 18th Apr 05:35PM:
Am I allowed to complain about packet retransmits?

If I'm getting 30% - 50% retransmits, should I be paying additional fees?

I don't think so.
--
wdoerr
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Supafly @ 18th Apr 05:46PM:
Re: Whine and Complain

The only thing that annoys me at this point is that if I pay more for the higher tier, I should expect unlimited transfer.

I have no problems paying for tiered service, I actually encourage it, I would much rather have my sister pay 19.95 for her broadband connection since she only checks her mail and views some trailers online, while I would gladly pay 79.95 for my bandwidth hogging, movie, mp3 and emulation downloading ass, but with the understanding that I don't have any download caps (or at least a little more realistic ones).

In the end of the month, the ISP will still makes their $50/month average for user. The only potential issue I see with this is that not everyone will play/play fair.
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raulgarza @ 18th Apr 05:58PM:
Re: If people unite and cancel their account

of course those are the only people that go over the caps, since video conferencing every day with my family in texas is not a bandwith hog, then my 5yr daugther must be downloading mp3s/porn.
--
Optimum Rules!!!
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BosstonesOwn @ 18th Apr 05:58PM:
Re: err

id be curious to see the upload stats a bit more. any charges for upping over so much if so i see alot of billing issues for the people who like thier mp3 p2p stuff and leave it on alot.
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anon @ 18th Apr 05:59PM:
Re: not in my city

Of course you wont ever get that letter. You have other alternatives.They will only screw the customers in areas without competition.
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David @ 18th Apr 06:03PM:
He was using

" So that you are aware, over the past three months, your usage has averaged 151GB/month. Most recently, you consumed 94GB/month in march"

If 15 GB equals

3 million e-mails
133 hrs of internet radio
600 hrs @25MB per hour web surfing
3750 Mp3's
750 hrs of xbox
85,000 photos
100 hrs of streaming video
12-13 full length mpeg2 movies

151GB/month avg.
30 million e-mails
1,330 hrs of internet radio
6,000 hrs @ 25MB/hr web surfing
37,500 MP3's (NO I do not see the RIAA after this one!! LOL :D)
7,500 Hrs of Xbox
850,000 Photos
1000 hrs of streaming video
120-130 full length MPEG2 Videos.

The multiplier was 10 in case you are curious ;)

Holy cow, I am wondering who he was subleasing his pipe to??

Ya figure $60-90 a month for basic service and suppose he puts an average of 5 other joes on his line for all they can download for $20 a month time 5 people, he has more than made up his cost and he surfs for free!!

That has to be what he is doing... or something rather close..



If they quote the prices... (Estimated)

He would pay $79.95 for the 1st 40GB/Month
$10/5gb @ 111GB used= (22.2x10) $222.00

$301.95 a month, minus taxes and fees and the rest

Good god that is incredible...


Please note: if my numbers are inaccurate please do not flame!!, just advise that they are incorrect and please correct them..


Still any way you look at it that is an exorbent amount of bandwidth...

JMHT

Just my humble thought... :)
--
I am always running around. Catch me if you can... The Hammer.. Year To Date Stats: Current weight: 339lbs, total loss: 245!!
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anon @ 18th Apr 06:05PM:
Re: This is CRAP!!

It is theoretically possible.The math works out if you actually get 56k and keep it saturated at least 90%.
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BosstonesOwn @ 18th Apr 06:05PM:
Re: err

carefull don't feed the trolls especially those that don't register. they make nothing of a point.

and for his opinion of that i go over the 40 gig a month just doing linux coding and server monitoring easily plus sending code snippets all over the net easily puts me over it.
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anon @ 18th Apr 06:12PM:
Re: The Meaning of Unlimited

Just curious. Where did the 151 gig number come from? Not the article I read. The numbers there were 30g and then 40g for the higher price. Which by the way is a worse deal than two lower tier accounts.(79.95+40g or 90.00=60g) or it also would be cheaper to get 40g by paying $44.95 + $2 per gig over 64.94=40g
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pranky @ 18th Apr 06:29PM:
Do I get a refund

You know if this whole cap thing was fair to the consumer I should be able to get a bandwidth credit if I dont reach the cap for that given month.

I really dont mind tiered service but I really really hate caps. I think all these broadband companies should get a copy of a webster's and look up the meaning of the word "Unlimited".

All I can say is, try this to me in NYC and see how fast I tell them to take their modem and shove it straight up their candy asses.
--
"All these thoughts they make no sense, I find bliss in ignorance"
Like Porn? Try Seti
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Kip patterson @ 18th Apr 06:29PM:
Re: The Meaning of Unlimited

151 gb was what the guy who got the letter had used the perceding month.
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UnKown @ 18th Apr 07:02PM:
never happenin to me

this shit wont happen to me. if my isp sends me somethin saying im going to be capped at 15 gigs a month or even 7 gigs a month, the service would be canceled immediately. i would switch to the 1500/256 bellsouth dsl. and if they do that to i would switch to the wireless 1500/1500 for 40 a month. and if they did that i would buy the t1 line from the people who service the wireless for 60 a month.

u think im joking take a look.

»www.nitrousnetworks.com/

my town is on the hookup with satellite and fiber to the home, and data over power lines. itll all be there and there is way to much competition for some big shit company to do that. this just infuriates me.
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Helen1 @ 18th Apr 07:29PM:
I feel sorry for y'all

I heard of Cox HSI from a TV commerical touting about unlimited internet access. I got the service and I found out there was byte caps of 30gigs download and 7.5gigs upload because of "bandwidth hogs." I tried both DSL and cable side by side, I find that Cox is slow, unreliable, high priced, and I have to monitor my bandwidth assumption or they will cut my account off. I decide to go back to DSL since there's no byte caps and latency is low. Cable ISPs should have a higher tier of 5000/512 with no DL/UL byte caps. I would buy the higher tier if Cox has one, but they don't. They only have 3000x256 in my area and that's it. I feel sorry for y'all with RR, I would cancel my account if I was you and get DSL or whatever is available to you..
Just my two cents and that's all I can think of.

-Helen
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keyboard5684 @ 18th Apr 07:38PM:
Re: If people unite and cancel their account

If you exceeded the monthly limit then you would appear to need it that bad.

That is a lot of data per month.

$79 is a great deal for what they are selling. The person who got the letter probably deserved it. It is my understanding that only people who use too much for the tier they are paying for will get a letter.
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IcePirate123 @ 18th Apr 07:46PM:
Its seems they never learn!

If all these companies want to continue doing business and not go totally bankrupt, I would suggest that they remember who the customer is! As I was told the first day of my first job (in the food service business), "No matter what you do remember that the customer is the one who signs your paycheck! Without the customer we have no reason to be here. No, the customer may not always be right, but they always have a right to be treated fairly and honestly. If not they will go somewhere else." This is what we need to remind all these companies/politicians of. WE ARE THE CUSTOMER! WE HAVE A VOICE! KEEP PUSHING US AND WE WILL USE IT! Its called where we get out broadband from/who we vote for! Let them cap my line, they won't get my money. Let the politician pass stupid laws, they won't get my vote. nuff said!
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keyboard5684 @ 18th Apr 08:02PM:
Re: Its seems they never learn!

I think the bandwidth cap is in response to the majority of voices, not the person who used 151 gigs in a month.

Reliable service is one major word coming from the customer voices. Fast service when they want it is another. I want to pay as little as possible.

It seems to me that the voices of the customers would point to caps or some way to keep most of the people happy. If you let 1% of your customers jack up the prices for 99%, let that 1% use all the available bandwidth during peak times, or let 1% compromise the other 99% reliability then you as a business are failing to listen to your customers.

You have a voice, you are using it. I would not assume that yours (or mine) is the majority of the customers voices.

I say good riddens to the guy that uses 151 gigs per month so I can have all of the things I want out of my broadband service. I think ISPs are beginning to implement the best thing for the overall majority. This means making 1% of their customers mad while making 99% happier. (It is probably much less then 1% that are using any where near 151 gigs per month).
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aurgathor @ 18th Apr 08:04PM:
Re: He was using

said by David:
"
Holy cow, I am wondering who he was subleasing his pipe to??

Ya figure $60-90 a month for basic service and suppose he puts an average of 5 other joes on his line for all they can download for $20 a month time 5 people, he has more than made up his cost and he surfs for free!!

That has to be what he is doing... or something rather close..



Nah, I'd bet 1/6 of a six pack that he was doing P2P, probably offering a handful of videos for download -- that can ensure a 100% utilization of UL bandwidth.
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dvd536 @ 18th Apr 08:11PM:
Re: Well, all I can say is those that are in OOL's

OOL'ers are already getting screwed.
upload is capped to 150kbps [yet they dont tell you how much triggers it]
email = joke
news = bigger joke.
-----------------------------------------------------
maybe if aol/tw bought them theyd fix some of the issues.
decent download speed is only one point to an isp. when your other services are in shoddy shape that brings your isp down in ratings. at least they dont have byte caps [yet] on their downloads.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth
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dvd536 @ 18th Apr 08:16PM:
Re: If people unite and cancel their account

you are obviously doing video conferencing in a low quality postage stamp sized window. or you're capped at 150kbps up.
that happened to a friend of mine on OOL :/
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth
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aurgathor @ 18th Apr 08:17PM:
pot calling the kettle black

While 150 gig a month is definitely an excessive usage, the caps of 15 gig and 40 gig are artificially set to a ludicrously low number, too. Methinks they should offer at least 30 and 100 gig, respectively, for that much money.

BTW, I have an acquaintance who work in an ISP's bandwidth enforcement department ;-), and she is telling me that someone need to substantially exceed (at least 2x) the stated limits for a warning letter / phone call from her. So, does anyone what is the amount that triggers warnings at RR?
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martissimo @ 18th Apr 08:19PM:
Re: Do I get a refund

To be perfectly honest, don't you think they would welcome this guy who averages 151 gigs of traffic a month telling em to shove it, as he signs up for a new ISP?

I know that if i was the provider i sure would
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RogueSlayer @ 18th Apr 08:21PM:
Re: Its seems they never learn!

Well said keyboard.

Also, does no one realize that the "unlimited" aspect refers to hours per month? A throw back to the age of hourly dial up. So yes, they do know the definition of "unlimited". However, it is unlimited access, not unlimited use.

As was mentioned before, it is no different than the cell phone industry. A small portion of all customers will always be put off by this but for the overwhelming majority, it will not affect them one bit.
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jj nobody @ 18th Apr 08:30PM:
Sounds like RR isn't too fr away from comcrap-land

Well, I figured I'd pick an ISP that is more than fair with their usage. After all, coming from comcast area, RR in tampa bay is one of the best ISP's around. although if they follow in the footsteps of other ISP's that insist on offering less of a service and charging the customer that same if not more, I will follow in my own footsteps and quickly cancel them and move to an ISP that's commercial base is based around "We have no caps, we are not like RR". I will go to DSL or (god forbid) dial-up... at least dial-up is for the most part, unlimited.

n interesting offer for RR to consider... instead of charging the 10 bucks for every 5 gigs over, why not just throttle the speed back to ISDN speed until the month is up... that would be reasonable to me... I'd have a slow connection, but at least I wouldn't get a surprise bill that would run into the hundreds.

Guess I'm a BW hog... just checked my DUmeter and have downed 29 gigs so far this week and have upped 14 gigs. My simple reason if RR questions or sends me a warning letter is that I'm simply using the "unlimited, always-on" service that they charge me for every month.

Bottom line, if push comes to shove with TWRR, I will state my reasons and ask them to refrain from harassing me and get off my back or I will take my broadband business elsewhere. They're certainly not the only game in town... not by a long shot.
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mikepd @ 18th Apr 09:07PM:
Re: Well, all I can say is those that are in OOL's

The normal cap for OOL is still 10/1. You get capped by the Cisco routers (they flag your account) if you upload either too much for to long or to long continuously as in P2P or any extensive use of the system. Cable ISPs are not user friendly, period. They may offer more download over DSL in some situations but download is not everything and marketing hype is not everything either. I have a 1.5/384 DSL line and am very happy with it. I miss qualifying for 7.1/768 by 535'. Yes, it would cost me $149/month and not $44.95 like I believe OOL gets for 10/1. So what? It's still a cheaper than what Road Runner wants for 4/1 here.
--
Always Reach Beyond Your Grasp
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FLea973 @ 18th Apr 09:22PM:
Death to the Killer App I guess

I have seen several threads in recent weeks rehashing the same thoughts on caps and tiered pricing and the meaning of "unlimited". Although I may have missed it, there has been one idea that has been running through my head over and over again that I haven't seen anyone mention: usage caps will prevent the "killer app" for broadband from ever coming to life - let alone several of them.

It wasn't that long ago that we were all being told by everyone in the industry that costs for broadband were high because of lack of adoption then that broadband adoption in the US was slow for 2 reasons - cost and the lack of a "killer app" that required broadband to work.

Well... I guess the industry now feels that the current level of penetration is just fine because they are raising prices and beginning to kill off the possibility of a killer app ever coming to market!

Internet phones, Internet TV, gaming, the weekly huge and buggy patch from Microsoft, email, Telecommuting (you'll think 2x before working on that 400meg power point presentation from home) -- all legitimate usages that when piled on will start to really eat your data cap - and heaven forbid if you get a script kiddy turning your box into a ftp server.

The plus side is that to prevent that last scenario, since it would REALLY cost huge $$, people will now properly patch and secure their machines.... but who am I kidding - we'll be reading all sorts of stories about Grandma barely living on Social Security who only does email on a cable connection getting hit with a $1000/mo ISP bill because 9yr old junior decided to visit a few shady sites while visiting.
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parasonic @ 18th Apr 09:35PM:
Re: The Meaning of Unlimited

unlimited -
3: that cannot be entirely consumed or used up; "an
inexhaustible supply of coal" [syn: inexhaustible]
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Gandalf1315 @ 18th Apr 09:49PM:
Lets be fair....15 gig is NOT fair.

If they bring the 15 gig caps to Indiana I will quit my RR/Brighthouse service the day it happens. Most months I probably use 15-25 gigs. Other months maybe a little bit more. And no I do not do p2p or warez or have any of that crap installed on my PC's. I beta test for 2 major software companies...I'm always downloading large files for that, I like trying different Linux distros, and other freeware/open source programs, I maintain multiple non profit websites, etc. Not to mention the fact that I have two kids that are always online playing games, chating, doing homework research and sending pictures back and forth amongst their friends. As well as surfing and email. They want everyone to jump on the broadband wagon but only do dial-up activity. With this mentality, broadband is dead! If that is the way they want it I will either switch to a provider that has no caps or, go back to dial-up or unplug altogether.
[text was edited by author 2003-04-19 03:54:57]

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Kip patterson @ 18th Apr 09:54PM:
Re: The Meaning of Unlimited

Agreed - but what is it that was unlimited? It has always been the hours of access - not the download/upload - they have always been limited in the TOS.

"(b) The Road Runner Service may be provided by Operator subject to certain maximum “throughput” limits (i.e., limits on the rate at which data may be sent to or received from the Subscriber at any time). Operator will provide Subscriber with information regarding any such limits from time to time.

(c) The Road Runner Service may be provided by Operator subject to certain limits on the maximum amount of bandwidth consumption available to Subscriber per month for the level of Road Runner Service subscribed for by Subscriber. Operator will provide Subscriber with information regarding any such limits from time to time."
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lrmayer @ 18th Apr 09:56PM:
Cap is less than I thought

Before really looking at my usage, I wasn't really worried about "usage" caps! Boy that a wrong assumption. I am probably closer to the type of user "acceptable" to Roadrunner than a lot posting here. After all, I seldom use newsgroups, use Email quite a bit, and do extensive browsing -- primarily for financial research and analysis as well as keeping up with hardware and software information. I DO NOT use P2P, gaming or anything I thought generated volumes of downloads or uploads. Only thing that I suppose that could be considered an exception is video stream use for earnings conferences and eight to ten hours once or twice a month to watch the County Board Webcasts (only way to do it in Winter Home).

Looked at last 218 hours statistics from the router (since last power outage) and without any of these Webcasts am consuming download and upload volumes at a monthly rate of 13.22 GB! I suspect that heaver earnings conference use and, if I was to watch the County Board Webcasts (at high versus low resolution) would put me over the 15 GB limit.

Pity most users here who have heaver usage than myself -- you are using more than you think!
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number1melon @ 18th Apr 10:47PM:
i would pay for it

I would pay for it if I got speeds of what they claim. But I still shudder at the idea of metered bandwidth.
--
My PC crashed. I hate my life.--www.nukethemnow.com
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detth @ 18th Apr 11:15PM:
Re: i would pay for it

thats a good deal.

I pay just over $100 / month for 1.5/384 static ips.
I knew metering/tier pricing would someday come, and its about time.
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David @ 18th Apr 11:28PM:
Re: He was using

I would take that bet, Me and the other guys were like "he has to have a file trading server somewhere..."
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indigo @ 18th Apr 11:48PM:
Does it allow servers?

Does this "improved" service allow servers? I'm guessing it doesn't. That coupled with RR's AOL backbone peering problems tell me this isn't worth it. Still, a better deal than I'm getting ($80 a month for 768 down and 384 up DSL, with 23ms of lag to the first hop), but then again my ISP allows servers and a static IP.

I wouldn't mind having a 3Mbps/512kbps package available if it had decent peering, allowed servers, and gave you a static IP. Anyone know what the upload transfer limit is? Probably something miniscule like 5GB a month.
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KrK @ 19th Apr 12:46AM:
Re: He was using

120-130 full length MPEG2 Videos.

Uh, nope :)

MPEG2 video of decent quality is quite huge. As in over 4GB for a 2 hour show.

So, 120 * 4 = 480GB, not 151....

It's more like 25.
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ComputerGod @ 19th Apr 01:51AM:
Re: Do I get a refund

Why should you be given a bandwidth credit for your failure to take full advantage of what was presented to you? That's like leasing a car and expecting money back because you did not use all of the 10k miles included in the package...
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gogeta6 @ 19th Apr 03:08AM:
business connection

they say they have an unlimmited use 2mbit/384k dynamic ip business connection for 79.95 in my area, anyone know of good programs to moniter usage, maybe if this all goes through I should just get this. All pretty lame though considering I have never in 5 years seen a network slowdown here and have heard their network is at 1/3 capacity, but may just be rumors, maybe they are so effecient at moving bandwidth between nods that we just have never noticed it, ha.
[text was edited by author 2003-04-19 03:32:59]

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anon @ 19th Apr 03:20AM:
Re: Its seems they never learn!

[OT]

But the cell phone industry is changing, too. Sure, there are still the traditional providers like Verizon, AT&T, and Cingular with metered service. They offer huge network coverage and "free" LD on your plans.

But take a look at Cricket and Cellular South. Unlimited airtime minutes in the local calling area. Not just nights and weekends, but 24x7. Cricket throws in 500 min of LD. And both charge ~$40/mo. If all you need is local calling, it's the place to be. Several people I know (on-the-road all day types) are canceling their POTS and getting Cricket or CellSouth.

And these two carriers are having a huge impact on the traditional cellular carriers. It's driving them to make changes. For 6 years, I had Bellsouth Mobility and paid $69 for 600 local mins, no N/W, no LD, and the plan was static. Within 1 yr of the appearance of Cricket and CellSouth, the plan changes on Bellsouth were obvious. I now get 1300 min, nationwide, no roam, no LD, plus unlimited N/W with LD for the same $69.

As for RR, over a year ago there were hints and rumors that bandwidth caps were coming. Our local RR GM even indirectly stated it would happen. So far, not yet in Memphis. But RR has a monopoly in certain markets, including parts of Memphis. DSL is great, but the "Copper only" limitation puts huge chunks of Memphis unavailable because of the fiber optic feeders from the CO since Bellsouth opted to build fewer but larger CO facilities. This also puts many people OOL because they exceed the 15K cable/ft limit, too, even if their area is all copper.

Time Warner already lost my cable TV business because of the ridiculously high prices and crap channel lineup. If they pull some silly bandwidth capping here, I'll just put up a wireless link or rent a Bellsouth transport T-1 back to my office and ride my OC-48 the rest of the way.
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EFudd @ 19th Apr 03:32AM:
Re: business coneection

If you want to monitor your usage, and your using a windows machine, get the program DUMeter. Its a very good program that keeps track, on a daily, weekly, and monthly basis, how much traffic is uploaded and downloaded from your machine.

It also shows you in realtime, how much raw bandwidth is currently going over your line. It works on a pc that is also setup to share your internet connection. Which means you can choose which network adapter the program monitors.

As for the cap, the statement of over 15gigs per month being serious bandwidth usage to me is laughable. Are there many people in here that use under that amount of bandwidth per month?

I am curious as to what the average bandwidth usage for users in here is. I get the impression that most people in here use between 10 and 30 gig/month. Untill recently, I used quite abit more than that.

Also, I wonder if any of their business accounts are being sent this letter. For instance, here in columbus we have a Teleworker package that for $5/month more($50/month total), you get the same 2mbit downstream, but a 768kbit upstream, and I'm curious if anyone that has something similar in the areas getting the notice is also getting the notice.
--
Do you SetiAtHome
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gogeta6 @ 19th Apr 03:34AM:
Re: business connection

The advertised teleworker here doesn't say specific bw so I assumed it would be the same, 768 would be sweet :).
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EFudd @ 19th Apr 03:39AM:
Re: Its seems they never learn!

While interesting, you cant prove 1% of the people use 151 gigs per month. And the cap isn't for people that use 151 gigs per month. Its for those that use over 15 gigs per month. I would think there are quite a few people that use over that amount per month. While I have no proof of that myself, why dont we ask the users here.

I use over 15 gig per month. Anyone else?
--
Do you SetiAtHome
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EFudd @ 19th Apr 03:43AM:
Re: Do I get a refund

Why do people keep saying 151 gigs per month?

The caps are for people that use FAR less than that. The caps are for people that use over 15 gigs per month. And that probably affects more people than we would like to think.
--
Do you SetiAtHome
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EFudd @ 19th Apr 03:53AM:
Re: i would pay for it

detth:

I see your with Speakeasy. I'm curious as to how much bandwidth your allowed? I know you guys are allowed servers and have something like 2 static ips for your current config.

Side note, I just went to their site and it says $90/month for residential 1.5/384. Do you have business line, extra options, or is it just a tad bit higher for you for some reason?
--
Do you SetiAtHome
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MrMaster @ 19th Apr 04:01AM:
Sounds fare to me

Before the only choices were expensive business acounts. While the choices are not in the Milwaukee area I would happily pay for this shit.

I am a huge fan of emule but I don't think I would exceed their cap. Larger upload speeds is something I have been craving for a long time.

Hopefully I WILL have this choice in the future.

FYI, I am against caps but this sounds resonable.
--
Do you want to feel smart? Ask George Bush a question.
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EFudd @ 19th Apr 04:36AM:
Re: The Meaning of Unlimited

Interesting debate on what unlimited actually means.

Kip is making the point that unlimited from the ISP means your connection will be simply available 24/7 for $44.95/month. Noting that actual usage is not unlimited.

Others make the point that unlimited means more than simple availability. Noting that actual use is really unlimited.

I'm curious as to peoples input on a point I am about to make. Particularly yours Kip. You seem to know quite a bit about what is going on in the cable industry and I have learned from you, which is more than I can say for most people that just run their mouths here.

AOL had a class action lawsuit brought against them a few years ago for not having enough modems for their dial-up users. AOL was forced to make their service available and usable by installing more modems so people could dial-in and use the service.

My assumption from that is, simply because the internet is out their and available for $20/month(or whatever the rate at the time was), that being able to dial in and use the service was what you were actually paying for. And back then, if I remember right from all those cd's that they sent out to people, also said unlimited on them.

Today we have a slightly different scenario coming. Unlimited internet connectivity, but limited usage. And you dont know what the usage limit is until you sign up. Kinda like the people that signed up for dial-up all those years ago didn't know they'd have to wait in line to use the service.

People back then expected to be able to actually use the service, just like people now do. So, isn't what the majority of people think a word means, really what it means, or can a company redefine what a word means as long as they put a disclaimer up? Is the advertising deceptive based on what people think a word means or justifiable based on what a company thinks it means.
--
Do you SetiAtHome
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martissimo @ 19th Apr 05:00AM:
Re: Do I get a refund

said by EFudd:
Why do people keep saying 151 gigs per month?

The caps are for people that use FAR less than that. The caps are for people that use over 15 gigs per month. And that probably affects more people than we would like to think.


Well basically because so far the question asking users about it in the Road Runner forum seems to indicate that the only person here at BBR who has directly heard anything about it is the 151 gig guy (and it seems a safe bet that BBR people are the types who use their connections a fair bit typically) ;)

I wouldn't be surprised if they are fairly lenient about the 15 gig number when it's all said and done, though I certainly would assume that it will take somewhat less than 150 gigs to merit a letter in the future.

»Roadrunner Xtreme?

then again, only time will tell
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EFudd @ 19th Apr 05:26AM:
Re: Do I get a refund

Perhaps I am taking what peope are saying the wrong way then. I'm getting out of it that people are only thinking that the guy that used 151gig of bandwidth is going to be affected and aren't seeing that the 16 gig user will be affected as well.

Perhaps I am overanalyzing things? Wouldn't be the first time I have been accused of it. :-)
--
Do you SetiAtHome
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Kip patterson @ 19th Apr 07:39AM:
Re: The Meaning of Unlimited

Your last two paragraphs make some really good points.

The tradition of the cable industry is to withhold information at every opportunity. The paragraphs I quoted above are an example of that. The economics of the industry are such that a limitation on use was inevitable. RR and others have been slow to deal with it. I said a year and a half ago that this was coming and got pilloried for it.

The use of the word "unlimited" without qualification or definition is just one example. They are following in the tradition of many industries we don't like very well, including banking (loans, especially), car dealers (warranties ), etc. These industries found their conduct regulated because they were unwilling to do an adequate job of self-direction.

On the other hand, I think there are some things to celebrate in the case of RR. Take a look at security.rr.com. They spell things out pretty clearly. AOL, whcih we love to hate, recently did the same with their anti-spam initiative. And now, RR, at least in one location, has offered options and spelled out how much you get for your money.

Certainly advertising can be deceptive. I don't think it is in this case. If customers felt that they could use their own definition of unlimited without inquiring to see what the vendor meant, then shame on them. Competent advertising and conduct depends upon competent customers as well as ethical companies.
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EFudd @ 19th Apr 09:00AM:
Re: The Meaning of Unlimited

I got to thinking, how can a person who uses broadband really make a point about the unlimited in the advertising that broadband uses without it seeming that its one sided. I came up with an answer: ask a person that hates computers, doesn't understand the internet, and will never have much of a use for either. That person is my own father. :-)

So I asked, lets say your interested in the internet and lets say the internet provider you decide to sign up with says its unlimited internet. Now lets say after about two months of using it, you get an email from the internet provider saying you went over 15gigs of bandwidth in one month and we want you to pay $80/month instead of your current $44.95/month for a higher usage tier.( please remember, this is someone that doesn't understand anything about gigs, bits, and 'no, right click, your left clicking' ) So now you find out you have a limit to the usage. What does it mean?

His response is, what do they mean by unlimited then. I tell him they mean you have unlimited access, but not unlimited usage. I tell him the web page advertising says unlimited internet, but the TOS that your made to click on to read through before accepting service says you have unlimited access to the internet 24/7 but using the internet is limited.

He says thats deceiving advertising, bait and switch stuff sales people do and is not unlimited.

I have another friend who feels the same as my father. She thinks the world would be a better place without technology, but thinks unlimited means you can use the internet whenever you want.

We are people that live and breath PC's and Networking. We understand what a gig of traffic is. Others will never understand even when it is explained to them let alone think to ask what the ISP means by unlimited. I cant say its a persons fault for being technologically inept or say shame on them. They simply dont understand.

The advertising according to these people, who are your 'normal' home internet users, is deceptive. And it makes me wonder how many other home users feel the same.
--
Do you SetiAtHome
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Kip patterson @ 19th Apr 09:36AM:
Re: The Meaning of Unlimited

Here's an interesting link about an FTC action relative to deceptive advertising about internet access (Web TV):

»www.consumeraffairs.com/news/webtv.html

It sure would be nice if someone could come up with one of the "unlimited" ads, and some idea of when they were run.
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David @ 19th Apr 11:46AM:
Re: He was using

said by KrK:
120-130 full length MPEG2 Videos.

Uh, nope :)

MPEG2 video of decent quality is quite huge. As in over 4GB for a 2 hour show.

So, 120 * 4 = 480GB, not 151....

It's more like 25.


I was in a hurry figuring that up...

I figured the multiplier was 10, either way I am sure the guy that got the e-mail is not happy. Hell looking at the price that I estimated, he is not going to be happy with that bill at all..
--
I am always running around. Catch me if you can... The Hammer.. Year To Date Stats: Current weight: 339lbs, total loss: 245!!
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anon @ 19th Apr 12:37PM:
Time Warner = Greed

I'm from Lincoln and I'm a bit disappointed about RR's decision to try this out and to try it here of all places but I'm curious as to why I haven't received my letter yet. I figure I dl at least 60 gig a month. A far cry from that guy's average of 151 gigs but according to that letter I'm already a "Bandwidth Hog".

As for Keyboard5684's comment that this is all about "Reliable Service". I find that hard to swallow. I've been with RR ever since it started here a few years ago. It's been nothing but reliable 99% of the time. I've turned on numerous friends and family members to this service. Through that time, I and everyone else I have spoken to have never experienced any kind of degradation of service at peak times or any other. It's almost flawless here.

If RR really cared about reliable service why not implement this plan in heavily congested areas to see if it even has an effect on the service? I'll tell you why, it's because of money. In this area, competition is nil and they can pretty much do whatever they want. After the first year of service here they raised RR rates by $5. If you don't have their cable service it goes up even more for RR. Now they want to practically double the rates for high usage users.

This is just further proof of the greed of Time Warner. Recently, our local electric service was planning on opening their fiber optic lines for internet service which would have brought some much needed competition and cheaper rates throughout the city. Well RR just couldn't stand for this as they'd lose out big time. So they went to the city council and gave their sob story about unfair competition from a public utility. Boo Hoo. Anyways, like a baby they got part of their way. Fiber optic lines would be leased for use in commercial businesses only and not until a few years down the line. So they've still got quite a few years to continue screwing over the residential users as they please.
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ASiDiE @ 19th Apr 09:30PM:
Re: Time Warner = Greed

I live in lincoln and got the letter. On average I use 85GB a month.. and am totally pissed at this cap. I think it is totally lame and like the last post said.. it's all about greed. I called RR up and asked them why they put this cap on... and she said because of 5%.... 5% I said??? Come on.. they are bitching about 5%??? So what I see is that 95% of their other customers are not using their 15gb limit. Lets say for example... the other 95% of people use only 10GB a month. That means that basically they are paying for 15GB a month but only using 10. SO RR profits off of that... So basically let's say you got a ton of people not using their total bandwidth. SO you got all these extra 5GB blocks laying around... all it would take is 14 people.. to do this.. and it makes up for my 85 GB download! And you can't tell me they don't have 14 people doing this? All I am saying is that GREED is the only reason they are doing this. I see no other way around it. I could see if it was more than 5%... but 5% of your paying customers is pretty LOW if you ask me.

Also... AS of right now earthlink does not have any caps on their service. (if I am not mistaken) Now of course when I called up RR and talked to the Sales clerk. (They never seem to know anything accpet what they are told) I asked her "do you really think anyone is going to stay over here with RR when they can just swich over earthlink and have no cap?" and of course she said... "I asked the same thing! and they said earthlink will be moving over to a cap very soon." Mayby this is true.. maybe it's not. To me it's about a customer base... Yea when RR first came out it was the only cable modem company around. They could do just about anything they wanted too. And as of right now... Earthlink is offering 1/2 price for the first 3 months. SO why NOT switch over. I mean I will be saving 60 bucks in 3 months and will not have a cap.. Seems good to me.

Also this extream tier. How lame is that. Don't you think think if a person is already using 85GB a month at 3mb... don't think they might use even more with a faster line? I know I would. And at 80 Bucks a month.. plus if you go over that's alot of money! I think what I pay for the service I get now is a lot! But that's just me I guess.

Another thing! I think this whole thing about the "unlimited access" is a HUGE load of crap. Everyone that I know of that sees that... takes it as what is says.. UNLIMITED! Thats how I see it... I have Unlimited Access to my Internet line.. in which I also have unlimited access to where I go.. when I get on.. and how much I download. HOW the hell can you get around that. I think it's total BS to say something and then months down the line.. say... WELL.. it's not really UNLIMITED... Let me put it another way. Lets say I when I get on the computer to play games and download for lets say 4 Hours. On average I am able to use up 1 GB of bandwidth. (Playing games, Downloading files, Watching some streaming vids. Etc...) SO lets say I did that every day. so in 15 days... I am at my LIMIT already. SO now that means... unless I want to pay an extra 30 bucks for the extra 15GB of bandwidth for the month I have to LIMIT my usage... but wait a min... I thought it said I get UNLIMITED ACCESS... Which in this case.. is NOT true. NOw I know what you guys are telling me... UPGRADE to the Exream service. I don't know about all of you guys.. but paying 80 BUCKS a month is A lot of money to me. And I am sure it's a lot of money to a lot of other people out there. I am sure there are a lot of kids on this service that download a lot and there parents or who ever pay for it is already too much.

All I know is I will be swiching over to earthlink and I encurage others to do so. Save some money and not be caped for the time being!

ASiDiE
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untroubled1 @ 19th Apr 10:17PM:
Re: I feel sorry for y'all

I don't know. Cox seems to work for me. If I read this right, it's 40GB TOTAL bandwidth a month. At 512 upload and 3000 down, you can use it pretty fast. Cox just got the ball rolling. Look for others to follow.
--
Cox Business Services
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taxpro @ 20th Apr 12:48AM:
Re: Do I get a refund

I just want to point out the fallacy of this analogy. A car lease is measured over the whole term of the lease, not on a month by month basis. If you have a 12K annual lease, and drive 10K in the first three months, you don't pay any extra if the lease runs for three years and you return the car with 36K miles or less.
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bgriffin509 @ 20th Apr 01:11AM:
I got a letter too!

Well, it apparently takes less than 151 gigs of usage to get a letter. I recieved one today, averaging 61 gigs a month.
No I am not running a P2P kazza/winmx/blah blah.
I do however have several computers connected including a playstation 2 that the child plays quite a bit. Also I send and recieve large emails for purposes of my return to college and get a degree quest that I embarked on. My concern is is we have no way of monitoring how much usage have used currently, how can we avoid recieving large bills? Sadly I'm in a remote area, and the choices aren't very great. Dial up here is an option, if you don't need more than 120 hrs, after that its $3 per hour on top of the $29.95 per month. Are there any cheap routers that have the ablity to tell you what your upload and download usage has been?
Also while I'm on the soap box, often times the cable modem is flashing as though its recieving/sending data when in fact no devide is turned on. Do items such as port scans/etc count against your usage?
Steamed in the boondocks
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anon @ 20th Apr 02:22AM:
Re: Sounds like RR isn't too fr away from comcrap-land

I totally agree. I DL 14gigs of "large files" every day. There is a lot of waste with "corrupt chunks" and redownloading due to "unable to complete last chunk" all due to these trash dumping companies poluting PtoP. I dont tamper with the cable modem and I expect to use all of the bandwidth my money is paying for. My literature says unlimited usage, and the dictionary definition is clear. If RR sends me a letter redifineing those terms, I will dump them in a NY minute and have AT&T install dsl. Simple as that and no more money to RR. (At $79.95, 40gigs aint even going to cut it.)
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bluedevil23 @ 20th Apr 02:36AM:
Other ISPs?

I have a friend in Lincoln who told me about this and I looked into Time Warner there and noticed they have 4 different ISP choices: Road Runner, Earthlink, AOL, and Internet Nebraska. Do any of you know if this bandwidth cap applies to the other ISP's as well (specifically Earthlink)?
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rhobrock @ 20th Apr 03:34AM:
Re: He was using

said by David:

Ya figure $60-90 a month for basic service and suppose he puts an average of 5 other joes on his line for all they can download for $20 a month time 5 people, he has more than made up his cost and he surfs for free!!

That has to be what he is doing... or something rather close..


Nope. My letter stated I average 159 GB/month and I certainly don't do any subleasing. If you use newsgroups it's fairly easy to do that much.

A movie SVCD averages around 1.6 to 2.4 GBs, DivX films range from 700 to 1400 MBs, most CD images are around 800 MBs, and most TV shows are usually 400 MB (unless they're SVCDs). Getting 5 gigs of stuff a day off the thousands of usenet groups is VERY easy.
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EFudd @ 20th Apr 03:43AM:
Re: The Meaning of Unlimited

Hehe, I tried just that before I posted the last comment. But RR redirects their current customers so we cant see their sign up page. I'll have to look from work.
--
Do you SetiAtHome
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MisawaGQ @ 20th Apr 05:01AM:
Ridiculous

The real problem with these caps is that they are ridiculously low. People who use 150 gigs a month are abusing the bandwidth and it screws over the people like me who use significantly more than 15 gigs a month, but not to the point of abuse. Of course this doesn't put ISPs in the right for capping so low. Realistically they could offer 50, 60, 70 gigs a month for the price people pay for their broadband. This way the people who use extra bandwidth don't get screwed and it stops the abusers. But these companies are just greedy tools and will cap at 15 gigs so they can make those extra millions every year.
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Straphanger @ 20th Apr 08:16AM:
Earthlink

If this ever comes to the city, I'll probably be switching to EL or something. I'm already paying $60 a month for being a non-cable TV subscriber.
--
Next stop is 61st Street-Woodside...this is a 7 express, 7 express, 7 EXPRESS!
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Kip patterson @ 20th Apr 09:28AM:
Re: The Meaning of Unlimited

Here's the page - for all ISP's using TW in Columbus.

»www.twcol.com/products/get_servi···&noerr=1

Unlimited is used a number of times.

The Policies are there also (except for WCOIL).

They all seem to include the wording about excessive usage except for Earthlink. Their policies look like they are copied directly from their dialup side.

An interesting OT point - there are also IP addresses belonging to Bignet.net (out of Michigan) that show up on my cable - any idea about this?
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untroubled1 @ 20th Apr 12:12PM:
Re: Its seems they never learn!

[QUOTE=PLA][OT]

But take a look at Cricket and Cellular South. Unlimited airtime minutes in the local calling area. Not just nights and weekends, but 24x7. Cricket throws in 500 min of LD. And both charge ~$40/mo. If all you need is local calling, it's the place to be. Several people I know (on-the-road all day types) are canceling their POTS and getting Cricket or CellSouth.
------------------------------------------------------------
Thursday Cricket filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.
Hey, I didn't like buying SOHO but I use bandwidth.
--
Cox Business Services
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WaydWolf @ 20th Apr 07:40PM:
Bandwidth is NOT unlimited for TWRR or anyone else

Those of you who are complaining about caps should understand that the backhauls, those lines that carry data in and out of your high speed provider's back end, are NOT unlimited.

Those providers are charged a flat monthly rate for the connectivity plus a monthly bandwidth allowance and a per-unit-data charge for amounts over that.

Many operators are regularly forced to upgrade their peering connections to more expensive ones because of this.

Users are STILL overrunning those quotas.

Cable providers send a lot of their data over their own fiber as far as they can, but at some point MUST hand off to another network as that is the nature of the Internet. An INTER network of networks.

Do you propose they give away their bandwidth and quotas for free?

Do you propose they work for free at the network and do the supports, builds, moves, adds, changes, etc. for free?

The problem is not MP3s, video, etc. The problem is P2P and its ability to share files of any size over any connection 24/7.

THAT is the killer app for broadband, and it is KILLING broadband because it is feeding a desire and thirst for data exchange never seen before in the US or anywhere else for that matter. Feeding a thirst that cannot possibly be sated with the current networks.

Eventually, the capacity will climb. DOCSIS 2.0 and beyond will occur in broadband, data CLECs will eventually undercut the ILECs and force T-carrier/DS/OC line prices down. Fiber will reach the home. A sea of wireless cells from 1xRTT to 802.11somethingorother will be around. MVDDS will be a reality giving us terrestrial wireless at high speeds all over. Maybe we will even eventually see that pesky low Earth orbit system some day.

The REAL issue is, by the time we move to this, will the cost versus our value placed in it be similar to now? Or will they keep raising the price out of proportion until we are paying $250/month for 100GB/month and 10Mbps x 5Mbps in five years?

Will we be sh*thammered for exceeding the quota despite much of the data being transferred WITHIN the provider's local network? In other words, if I send 50GB to a friend in the same town on the same cable modem network which never leaves the provider's equipment, why should that count since it doesn't go towards the provider's quota with their peer?

THESE are the things we as consumers need to watch.
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dmoisan @ 20th Apr 08:51PM:
Re: How do you meter bandwidth at your house?

I checked; VZ will give me my online time but not my bandwidth used. My Personal Web Space is not metered at all (not surprising).
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anon @ 20th Apr 10:26PM:
Hmm. =/

I'm on DSL now.. I used to have Road Runner I was downloading about 7 - 10 gigs a day.

I only downloaded about 100 - 200 megs daily The Problem was the other people in the House on the Router were downloading too much. If I was still on their Service I would really be going past that cap.

I really don't like RR's little Plan here. =/

I feel sorry for the people who have Routers or something like that and they aren't downloading as much and will still get charged for it. :(
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ComputerGod @ 20th Apr 11:47PM:
Re: Do I get a refund

Perhaps you are misunderstanding. Even a month can be a term, and it is in this case as the restrictions are for the term of the cycle, which is one month. Also, on car leases, when you exceed the allotted mileage, you are charged extra per mile.
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tiger72 @ 21st Apr 01:16AM:
Re: $79.95

and you wouldnt be able to do much with the speed.

TW/AOL have a tremendous nationwide network, so I KNOW this isnt because of bandwidth costs. Peers would pay them so they can access those 20+ million customers. I guess i'll be switching to DSL...

As for saying what I should download, just because I dont just download email and I actually transfer files doesnt mean I shouldnt use the internet/broadband. I mean, if I cant use it then why the hell do they offer it? I guess me downloading isos, patches for my games, etc.. is way too much of a burden for their little network.

How about they charge for UPLOADS instead of downloads.. that wouldnt piss me off a bit.
--
UMKC:15051/20689 kbps RoadRunner: 2092/369 kbps
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pcg33k @ 21st Apr 01:18AM:
UNLIMTED

comcast 3.5 down 384 up an its UNLIMTED!!!!!!!!!! $79.95 a month ,
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tiger72 @ 21st Apr 01:21AM:
Re: Bandwidth is NOT unlimited for TWRR or anyone else

how about good ol AOL does what they did to cogent?

"if you want transport on our network, you give us free transport on yours." I dont think ANY network in their right mind would want to immedeately shut out 20million+ users.
--
UMKC:15051/20689 kbps RoadRunner: 2092/369 kbps
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EFudd @ 21st Apr 06:54AM:
Re: The Meaning of Unlimited

Cool, thanks. I completely forgot about the local page. I was looking at the main rr.com page. It appears they no longer have an advertisement or sign up on the national RR page.

I have no idea about bignet.net. I think I remember someone mentioning them a couple months ago, but cant remember a thing about it.
--
Do you SetiAtHome
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rody_40 @ 21st Apr 08:17AM:
Re: The Meaning of Unlimited

dial-ups also have a strange definition of unlimited as dialups unlimited simply means you can dial as many times as you want. if you read the tos of dialups it does not allow you to stay connected.
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detth @ 21st Apr 11:43AM:
Re: i would pay for it

with taxes, it comes to just over $100 a month.
I have asked them if I can run servers, they told me they encourage it, and they really do not care about how much bandwith I consume.
They have never complained, I have done almost 25 days straight of non stop downloading at one point, at full speed.
You get what you paid for =].
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murdok6100 @ 21st Apr 01:17PM:
Re: Do I get a refund

said by pranky:
You know if this whole cap thing was fair to the consumer I should be able to get a bandwidth credit if I dont reach the cap for that given month.



Well basically, what you are proposing is not even a tiered service. This would sound more like a per-use or pay-per-meg type system.

murdok610
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dhammer0 @ 21st Apr 02:06PM:
Total crap

Bandwidth costs for providers like RR is about $.10 per gig. $79 for 40 gigs is price gouging. For the $45 a month I pay I should be able to grab 200 gigs a month. They'd still make a 100% profit.
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scooby @ 21st Apr 02:49PM:
Re: This is CRAP!!

said by Orwell 1984:
It is theoretically possible.The math works out if you actually get 56k and keep it saturated at least 90%.


At 53k you'd be able to pull about 15.5gigabytes per month but then that most definitely would not qualify as residential use and most isps kick you off every 8 hours or so.
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Frank @ 21st Apr 02:56PM:
Does this affect Earthlink/3rdparty Cable users

Just wondering, since i'm the only person who has seemed to have brought this up,

does this affect people on earthlink cable as well? or is this just an rr thing.

time warner may be shooting themselves in the foot with this one and i think there might be a mass exodus to earthlink if it's rr.com only.

speaking of which, do people on earthlink cable get those security scans from security.rr.com?
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IcePirate123 @ 21st Apr 05:11PM:
Re: The Meaning of Unlimited

One thing I would suggest to all those who recieved this letter is to IMMEDIATELY print a copy of the terms of service and rules and regulations from the current Road Runner Website for their area. Make sure that these printouts CLEARLY show the date and time printed. Then go to see a lawyer in your area who is familiar with federal law. It seems that Road Runner claims to offer BROADBAND Internet service. They offer unlimited connection to the internet. BUT they are limiting the amount you can download. THIS IN EFFECT IS BY THEIR OWN CONTRACT LIMITING YOU CONNECTION SPEED. ie. always on connection. In effect you are connected to the internet for 2592000 seconds per month. Yet they are limiting you to 15 gigs. Do the math. Your total allowable connection speed averaged over the whole month is less than 56k. Recently the FTC passed several laws defining MINIMUM SUSTAINED CONNECTION SPEEDS required for companies offering BROADBAND INTERNET. 56k definitely does not qualify. I am sure that if Time Warner is hit with a class action suit and investigators from the FTC then they will forget this foolish download caps quicker than they thought of it. A GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE. LETS USE IT, NOT HAVE IT USED AGAINST US!!!!
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Kip patterson @ 21st Apr 05:29PM:
Re: The Meaning of Unlimited

The FTC does not pass laws. Perhaps you meant regulations. Can you tell me where to find them?

thanks,
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IcePirate123 @ 21st Apr 07:07PM:
Re: The Meaning of Unlimited

It was the FCC that passed the law. I read through some of their site, but as that I am not a lawyer, more than half was gibberish. I did find the Initial ruling from them where the definition of broadband is many times that of dialup. Clearly more than they are limiting to in this case. There are numerous follow up documents available. As I stated previously I would take it to a lawyer familiar with federal law as I am sure he would love to take on AOL/Time Warner, especially if he thinks he can win. AKA if he smells money. Here is a link to the document defining it as "many times faster than dialup". »hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/a···77A1.pdf Good luck and we are all on your side. Hey, if they make it nationwide maybe I will be in court with you!
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pranky @ 21st Apr 08:27PM:
Re: Do I get a refund

said by murdok6100:
Well basically, what you are proposing is not even a tiered service. This would sound more like a per-use or pay-per-meg type system.


Wasn't really proposing that idea but could be taken that way. The thing is that I have yet to see numbers that justify bw caps. Granted their are some "hogs" who use all the service that they can get but then there are also people who barely use the service so in the end I would think that it would all even out. Until I see some hard numbers that state the network saturation and the price of bandwidth I will againist bw caps.
--
"All these thoughts they make no sense, I find bliss in ignorance"
Like Porn? Try Seti
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EFudd @ 22nd Apr 06:35AM:
Re: The Meaning of Unlimited

I think I just found out why your seeing Bignet.net on your cable( I am assuming your talking about arp requests? )

Its in the above FCC article on page 19, subsection 117.

It talks about allowing other companies, not just Road Runner, the ability to offer cable modem service to 'affiliated and unafiliated isps'. On February 26, 2002 the FTC approved Bignet.net and 4 other ISPs' to share the AOL/TimeWarner network and compete for providing access to the internet.

So far I havnt found the 'Minimum Sustained Connection Speeds' that have been talked about in the above post. Still looking.

Very interesting article. I even have a clearer understanding of how the cable system works. Never knew anything about a Regional CMTS the the local CMTSs' connect to before reading this. :-)
--
Do you SetiAtHome
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Kip patterson @ 22nd Apr 07:28AM:
Re: The Meaning of Unlimited

Interesting find on Bignet. They are not listed on the RR services page nor do they list the service on their own site. Perhaps they got into the business and then backed out. Yes, I found them via ARP queries.
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Mele20 @ 22nd Apr 09:50AM:
Re: Cap is less than I thought

I measured my usage last year when this first came up. I am online 10 hours a day and listen to Netscape Radio Plus ten hours a day. I used 3gigs a month in bandwidth. So, no way I could ever use 15gigs!! That is a LOT! So, I am perfectly fine with this. I also use newsgroups every day. I'm glad to see RR finally doing this. Now the price should drop for users like myself.
--
"Everything can be taken from a man or woman but one thing: the last of the human freedoms - to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's destiny." Victor Frankl - Man's Search for Meaning mele20@dslr.net
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Speedy8 @ 22nd Apr 11:06AM:
Re: Cap is less than I thought

You wish, more like the price stays the same for you and goes up for the rest of us. Greedy ISPs...
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davoice @ 22nd Apr 11:35AM:
Re: err

Which is actually what you'd pay for 2 T1s to get the same service. So, according to market pricing, this is right in line.

- Davoice
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Mele20 @ 22nd Apr 07:56PM:
Re: Does this affect Earthlink/3rdparty Cable user

This policy would affect all ISPs on Time Warner Cable. This falls under the Cable Modem Service Subscription Agreement which is binding on all TW cable modem users. This is coming to Hawaii, but not in the immediate future, according to Time Warner Oceanic Cable:

Aloha!

Thank you for your inquiry. We have no plans of implementing an
additional charge for high bandwidth users in the near future. However,
due to the increasing costs of providing quality high speed service to
all users, it is possible that a similar plan may be implemented some
time in the future.

Thank you!

Oceanic Tech Support Hawaii
#1786

It is already provided for, including Earthlink and AOL broadband customers, using cable modem from Time Warner Oceanic Cable in the CABLE MODEM SERVICE SUBSCRIPTION AGREEMENT which is binding on all Time Warner Oceanic Cable modem users:

Each of Operator, ISP or Subscriber may terminate the ISP Service to Subscriber at any time for any reason, in its sole individual discretion. This Agreement will, however, remain in full force and effect for any ISP Service subscribed for by Subscriber, regardless of Subscriber's changing his or her choice of ISP.

(b) The ISP Service has maximum "throughput" limits (i.e., limits on the rate at which data may be sent to or received from the Subscriber at any time), as set forth in the price list and Subscriber Materials for the ISP Service.

(c) Subscriber acknowledges and agrees that Operator and ISP shall each have the right to monitor Subscriber=s "bandwidth consumption" (i.e. aggregate volume of data that may be sent or received) at any time and on an on-going basis, and to limit excessive bandwidth consumption by Subscriber (as determined by Operator and/or ISP) by any means available to Operator or ISP, including suspension or termination of ISP Service.

(d) Operator reserves the right to implement specific limits on the maximum amount of bandwidth consumption available to Subscriber per month for the level of ISP Service subscribed for by Subscriber. Once such limits are implemented, if Subscriber exceeds the bandwidth consumption limits assigned to the level of ISP Service for which Subscriber has subscribed in any month, Operator (or ISP if ISP is billing Subscriber for ISP Service) has the right to limit bandwidth consumption by Subscriber in excess of such level by any means available to Operator or ISP, including suspension of ISP Service, and/or to impose additional fees and charges on Subscriber.
--
"Everything can be taken from a man or woman but one thing: the last of the human freedoms - to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's destiny." Victor Frankl - Man's Search for Meaning mele20@dslr.net
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FLECOM @ 22nd Apr 09:00PM:
Re: err

no, not by a long shot...

you can get a full T1 line with all local loop charges for $400~500

and a T1 line is MUCH more reliable than a cable connection any day
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anon @ 4th May 07:59PM:
Re: Total crap

you still have to consider the employee's they must pay for. but 15GB is simply too low, ive been monitoring my usage since i got the letter. in a week ive used 1.5GB. that includes normal browsing, about 5 hours of steaming music, and several hours of low bandwidth intensive gaming. This is what ive used while severely limiting my usage. Normal I was running an FTP server which could use 100GB a month at full uploading bandwidth. This server normally runs at around 75% capacity. Add 8 hours of daily music streams and probly 10-20GB of gaming and multimedia downloading. this would place my regular monthly usage around 100-120GB a month. Now I admit, running a high volume residential server can be considered abusive. But that still leaves 20-50GB a month in normal usage. A 50GB cap would be acceptable to me. But 15GB a month would mean you could not have sustained use of your cable connection for everything that makes broadband worth the price. If i wanted my bandwidth limited to that of a 56k connection, i would just pay $10/mo for dial up. This limiting is not too unreasonable, but they could offer much better options with a hight minimum usage lvl cap. I can see $45/mo for 25GB, $55/mo for 50GB, $65/mo for 75GB and $75 for 75+ but even that is the highest i can imaging paying, and as technology goes, usage will increse... what will they do then? continued increase of Bandwidth cost will just upset the public and eventual the company will colapse. i suggest they find a solution soon or the public's "internet craze" will end
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anon @ 10th May 02:31PM:
Xtreme for $79.95?????

I would GLADLY pay that.

I live in North Carolina and use TWC Triad/Roadrunner.

I got "the call" two days ago a received the happy news that RoadRunner Xtreme will cost me...drum roll...$99.95 a month!!!!

Geez! At that price I wish I lived in Ohio!!!
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anon @ 31st May 06:05PM:
Skeptic to victim in a week

I live in Lincoln, NE also. I was skeptical of how anyone could use 151GB in a month also. I have downloads from kazaa going 24x7 since it takes that long to get some stuff (TV Shows). I figured that I would be a little bit under the 15Gb cap but I thought it would have been nice if the cap was 30 to 50GB instead so I wouldn't have to worry about it. I check my e-mail daily, play online gaming a few hours a week, and download about 10 TV eps a week (450MB each). I consider myself a normal user that uses RoadRunner alot, but not exceedingly so.
A couple of days ago, I too received a letter from RoadRunner. It stated that their would now be a download cap of 15GB per month and that if I went over it they would send me a warning letter. After multiple letters they are going to chard $10 per extra 5GB I use (A la carte) so that I will either pay extra or move to the Extreme service which is still capped at 40GB.
The letter also said I had averaged 97GB per month for Jan-March, and 79GB for April. I was floored that I could possibly be using that much bandwidth. How can we measure this or force RR to measure it and make it available to us ?
I am going to closely monitor what I do this month and stop sharing Shield and Ent eps on kazaa to see how my numbers come out.
I don't want a limited cap because I don't want to worry about how much I use the internet. I already have a $160 cable bill every month and don't want it to go up any more.
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TNC10284 @ 6th Jun 09:36PM:
Re: Skeptic to victim in a week

Hello. I am a resident of Lexington, NC. I have had Triad Road Runner(the $45 version) since 5-9-2001. I have never paid a bill late and I have never complained about the Road Runner service(until now) except to notify RR when there were problems with my connection in our area(and even that was rare). On 6-5-2003 I received a letter from TW Cable(see attachment) notifying me that I am transferring over the upcoming(in July) 15GB a month limit and that I need to choose a plan to settle this or in the future be charged $15 for each 5GB over the 15GB limit. I have either the choice of paying $99.95 a month for Road Runner Xtreme with a 40GB a month limit(and I'm still over that limit so what good is that going to do me?) or to pay $15 for each 5GB I am over the limit. When I looked at the letter from the person in NE I got FURIOUS. I feel the same as some people in this thread, TW Cable knows that certain areas have no other broadband competition so they stick it to the people that do not have any other broadband service providers in their area. I read the threads where people were saying that they would immediatley cancel their subscription to RR because they live in NYC and have many other broadband options in their area and haven't seen a letter like this yet. If you compare my letter to the one from NE you will see exactly what I am saying. Road Runner in NE wants $74.95 for Road Runner Xtreme and only $10 for each 5GB over the 15GB limit of the $45 a month standard Road Runner. But in my area, we only have two other broadband service providers, our local telephone company's Cable or DSL service(it's slow and unstable, 512kbps max DL for TurboConnect cable Plus and 256kbps for regular TurboConnect cable. Their DSL isn't any faster either. I have heard that our Turboconnect users is running off a few T3's through Lexcom cable for our entire city) or EarthLink cable. Even EarthLink cable says that they use TW Cable's own network and when EarthLink customers have service issues TW Cable has to come service the EarthLink users. So, TW Cable knows this and therefore are charging $99.95 for Road Runner Xtreme. I think this is UNFAIR business practice! The FCC and/or BBB should be notified of this. However, it is most likely that nothing will be done because money = power. IE Microsoft; they have outstanding products but outrageous prices for most people. Now, I also think that $99.95 a month is unacceptable for two retired parents and an 18 year old high school graduate(me) that is having to save most of his money for college this fall to try to get a career in the computer field. Don't you think? I have already called EarthLink and am currently going through the switching process. What I fear is if a lot of people in our area switches to EarthLink because of Road Runner's transfer limits, since EarthLink is using the TW Cable network I have a feeling TW Cable will try to maintain it's hold on the broadband services in our area and force EarthLink to impose the monthly transfer limits on it's users. Thereby forcing me to switch to our local phone company's Internet services. I ask that everyone that is upset about this issue to PLEASE email everyone you know that uses Road Runner and notify them of Time Warner's unfair practices as well as email your local Road Runner. It is like I said in an email to TW Cable, if they are having such a hard time trying to "ensure that all customers receive optimal and equitable performance" then why haven't I noticed any service interruptions or slow performance in our area? I have also read on Road Runner's site that they run their networks off of MULTIPLE OC-48 connections, they should NOT and are NOT having bandwidth/traffic issues. And even the "average" user who only checks their email and does some internet surfing who does NOT go over their 15GB a month limit, in the end won't it all even out with the users that use, in their own words from the email response I got from TW Cable, "excessive bandwidth"? Here is an unedited copy and paste of an email response I got from a customer serivce rep. from Triad TW Cable: Thank you for taking the time to express your dissatisfaction with the new Road Runner tiered service structure. We understand your frustration and appreciate you giving us the opportunity to further explain the recent changes. There are many instances where heavy Internet user activity is interfering with the service quality of Standard Road Runner subscribers. If you download music via file sharing software, such as Kazaa, WinMx, Morpheus, etc., these sites often take up excessive bandwidth. Did you know you can drastically decrease the amount of bandwidth you are using by disabling this software when it is not actively in use?



The new tiered pricing is designed for heavy users who consistently exceed the consumption limits outlined in the consumer user agreement. We contacted you to inform you that on a regular basis you have exceeded the maximum amount of consumption allowed for a Standard Road Runner subscriber and to recommend an alternative package that better suits your needs. Road Runner Xtreme, the package offered for $99.95, provides a consumption limit of 40 GB per month as opposed to the 15 GB per month available with your current package. Road Runner Xtreme subscribers enjoy increased speed, greater data transfer capacity and the option of wireless distribution to multiple PC’s. The increased bandwidth provides 1 MB per second faster downstream speed and the upload speed is increased by 128 KB per second.



Excessive bandwidth usage is expensive for high-speed Internet service providers. Many high-speed Internet providers are in the process of implementing bandwidth consumption limits. We are sorry for any inconvenience this may cause you and would hate to loose you as a customer. The letter you received was an attempt to find an acceptable package that best meets your needs. We still offer unlimited access, but there are limits to excessive bandwidth consumption, as stated in the Cable Modem Service Subscription Agreement.



We hope you will decide to remain a valued Road Runner subscriber. Your satisfaction is our priority and we appreciate you giving us the opportunity to assist. Please do not hesitate to contact me directly at twcnblack@triadtwcable.com if you have any unanswered questions or concerns.



Brandy Black

Customer Service Professional

CustomerService@triadtwcable.com

www.triadtwcable.com

BTW, I do NOT run Kazaa or any other File Share Utility 24/7, ANY time I run a file share utility it's at night. Please reply and post your thoughts. If you think of anyone that uses Road Runner please notify them of this as well as well as email Road Runner in your area. They can NOT stay in business and lose so many Road Runner customers if a lot of people begins to switch providers. If anyone could contact the FCC or BBB then they just MAY be of some service to us. If you could tell me how to get into contact with them I would myself. Thank you for your time and let's stand up to these unfair practices!

Tavis
Click for full size
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anon @ 14th Jun 12:28AM:
Its too bad

Too bad roadrunner has to do this. I hope this doesn't come to columbus ohio where i have my service. I think they finally found out that their users are using 15GB+ so they make you upgrade. This is not cool!
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Dalton D @ 16th Jun 03:37AM:
Time Warner \ Road Runner Needs to Get a Grip!!!!!

I have also received two letters here the past two months saying that I was going over the newly implemented band with usage regulations. They also suggested that I sign up for Road Runner Extreme
which is $55 higher in cost or pay $15 for every 5 gig of usage over their new limit of 15 gig up/down
usage.

Simple Solution (for the time being any ways):

Time Warner provides cable services in the triad area of NC for Road Runner, AOL Broadband, Earthlink, and inter.net.max. They all run over the same network of cable and they all boast the same speeds.
Since they all go over the same network of cable my next thing to find out was: Is either one of these services going to be faster than the other? After much research and talking with techs the answer was... NO

After looking into what each of the above servers provided (speed, usage, cost) Earthlink came out on TOP!!! The first thing that caught my eye about Earthlink was the...... Unlimited!!!!!! The next thing that was very appealing is there is a promotion going on..... $29.95/ month for the first 6 months and only $41.95/ month thereafter. Which by the way is $3 cheaper than Road Runner. The next thing is Earthlink also offers UNLIMITED dial-up with this package in comparison to Road Runner's 10 hours/ free .99/min thereafter per month. Something else I also just found out by coincidence was my Dad also liked what I had found out about Earthlink so he decided to join up too and Earthlink gave me a free month of service for referring him.
What a deal. I done the same thing with Road Runner when i first signed up with them and all I got from them was...... Oh, that promotion is no longer in affect. Imagine that!!!!!!!!

After Thoughts:

I personally think Time Warner / Road Runner really needs to reanalyze this restriction to users. It's not like the 5 - 10% of your users that are going over the newly implemented usage limit are doing anything illegal.
They are just taking advantage of what you were offering. In my case..... I haven't done anything different that what I was doing in 2001 than what I am now doing on the internet.

Another thing.... why isn't this letter being sent out to everyone informing them of the newly implemented usage limits? It's not nice to single out individuals especially ones that spend a lot of time on the Internet because they probably have a lot of friends on here and word does travel pretty fast on the the Information Highway!!! I Think It's Time to Get a Grip Time Warner / Road Runner!!!!

Dalton
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malium @ 29th Jun 03:55AM:
Re: Whine and Complain

A more relevant point mentioned elsewhere in a related thread though makes note of the constant scanning and probing of cable modem IPs by folks looking to abuse these, viruses, etc. A few years ago data lights on cable modes didn't blink constantly if you weren't active online, now they do - and this is surely being measured too.

The things that bother me about this are - one, RoadRunner does not price evenly across the US to all affiliates, it's set on a local level, so some places you get more or less bandwidth, pay more or less a month, or get more than one IP in a basic account. My letter said $15 for each 5 gigs over 15, and the 40 gig account was $99 not $79. Yes, it's a reasonable service, but if you are going to penalize people you should offer tools so they can monitor usage.

Also, as for bitching, who are you or anyone else to tell me what is reasonable? What was reasonable 4 years ago when I worked at RoadRunner is different now that AOL is pushing broadband content, now that movies are available online from legit sources, now that music can be downloaded legally from many sources. Remember that quote from Bill Gates about 64K being all a PC would ever need? My first PC had a 10 MEG hard drive. It's ironic that AOL wants to push more content to us but their company TWC wants to charge more if you use it. Hmmm. Guess you'll have to watch those movies on demand on digital cable instead. This isn't about abuse, it's about profit and tiered billing structures - the letter was a clear intimidation to get me to pay more or force me to a business class account. Or to moderate my internet usage.

Think banks and the way they nickel and dime you, making hundreds a year off the average account that lets them earn interest on your money. Think of the phone company billing by the minute or billing more to call 40 miles from here and it does for me to call Europe. People have every right to bitch and whine about a contract suddenly being changed on them. Imagine if your unlimited cell phone minutes suddenly changed to 100 minutes a month next month and charged you $1 a minute over that. A problem is that cable companies have virtual monopolies in most markets - you can't go elsewhere, and DSL isn't universally available to all locations served by cable. This is why the same company can and does price differently in different markets - and worse, the pricing is also often driven by collusion with your local city, town or county by franchise agreements with cable companies - guaranteeing them exclusive access to you as a customer, and your government probably skims profits (taxes or otherwise) off the price too. But with cable modems most of it falls outside the TV franchise deals and is pure profit for the cable company - the modem is paid off in a few months and the investments in the infrastructure are probably written off at a corporate level.

Yes, I've downloaded excessively, but until recent announcements the account was stated as unlimited internet access and now I'm told I can only use 1/10th of the level of service I used last month or pay extreme fines for extra traffic. It reminds me of the early web hosting models that made some ISPs rich off porn hosting when stolen passwords would skyrocket the gigs of traffic into thousands of dollars of excess hosting traffic and drive the sites out of business.

I'd be very curious what level of traffic would show on a test modem only connected to a PC with no traffic, but probed constantly as RoadRunner IP addresses are. Probably not over 15 gigs, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was gigs of unsolicited traffic a month.

Personally the letter was enough to make me quit RoadRunner and return the modem. AOL assured me there were no limits there even though it's on the same Time Warner pipes and my new modem came with no TOS from TWC. So I don't think the same as Earthlink users being bound by TWC matters on AOL, and I'm still waiting to hear if anyone on Earthlink got one of these letters from TWC. But the AOL client seems to need to be running on any PC to get online, even behind a router, which is annoying. I'd like to get a definitive answer as to whether TWC is threatening Earthlink users with the same fees, and whether Earthlink uses or requires a proprietary client and can work effective with a home LAN and router without custom software on each PC always logged in.
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anon @ 22nd Jul 04:47PM:
You got Caps? Give them the boot!!

I surf the net quite fine with my modem and netzero account. When I pay 42.95 for broadband, I expect all I can eat at 1500/256. I dont care what any one says. If you want a cap, then you go to walmart and get a cap. Dont be trying to tell me how much I can and cant up/download. I am tired of constantly picking these busybodies out of my butt hole. I already got shut off by TWC-RR for DLing over their limit and refusing to pay more. So I called their competitor Earthlink and had them reconnect me and I am DLing 300-400gigs a month again. So there. As long as someone offers to legitamately sell it to me, I have the right to take it. And I will. Every bit of it.
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spike2000 @ 5th Apr 03:51AM:
The Ignorance of Youth

So i just found out about this bandwith cap.

OMG i said comcast people are screwed with their modem "good think i have RR" i said to my self. I have had it since i moved to Orange County. So i though i look up how RR has no bandwith cap since i never heard any of my friend get any letter from TW. I have been reading nemorous acounts on bandwith caps, "unlimited" word intepratation, and the "150 GB man". Of all the forums the "150 GB man" was the most interesting one. Then i found out their was a 15GB limit on RR. I was amazed since i have had RR for almost a year now. I have been satisfied with their suport and service. Untill i realized the bandwith cap. I have to say that 15GB is bs cap i have downloaded and uploaded a total of 27 GB this week. I still havent finished my 15 GB batch of Anime. Will i recieve a letter soon because i bet i do around 50 GB or more. I love my RR service they even gave me a free month when my modem was acting funny and kept reseting. Even after 3 call and 3 visits from teck guys trying to fix it they failed but it magicly fixed by itself. I recieved a free month and a bag of cockies with a letter of apologies. I can't believe my RR people i have talked with are the same one's put caps on bandwith's. I beileve tha day i get a letter saying i over use my service of Cable i'm gona be awfully pissed and call them and tell them all i have learned about on this forum. Thnx for everyone informative post. I will keep downloading like there's no tomorow im a customer and i deserver my 50+GB of month for my $44.99.
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Eddie Willer @ 6th Dec 03:17AM:
Broadband for Lancaster, CA?

We are relatively new to the "high desert" of Antelope Valley (Lancaster, CA) and since we don't watch much TV, we have not subscribed to any television cable service, although there apparently has been that service available here in this apartment because there are cable outlets in both upstairs bedrooms.

Our telephone service (local and long distance) is AT&T. I have heard radio commercials for DSL Extreme -- $14.95 per month -- but I don't think it is available way up here because we are too far away from civilization or something.

Someone said that cable modem -- Roadrunner? -- is the way to go, but I have no idea what that costs and whether you have to pay for cable TV service on top of the internet connection. My concern is that cable modem service up here will be too expensive for us.

Any suggestions as to how to get fast cable modem service in Lancaster, CA without paying an arm and a leg? I'd rather not have to subscribe to cable TV if I can help it. I listen to talk radio (KFI) instead.

Eddie
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