Which ISPs Sell Your Browsing Data? - None, if you ask their marketing departments...
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Which ISPs Sell Your Browsing Data?
None, if you ask their marketing departments...
(old news - 03:51PM Tuesday Apr 10 2007)
tags: privacy
A few weeks ago, it was reported that ISPs make a good chunk of change by selling their users' clickstream data. It's estimated your ISP is making about $5 a month per user off selling your semi-anonymized site visitation data to a dozen buyers like Compete.

The Wired News Threat Level blog (formerly 27BStroke6, but people missed the Brazil reference) has been trying to discern not only which ISPs sell your clickstream data, but also how long they retain IP info and whether they've worked with the DOJ on mandatory data retention (they most recently asked AT&T).

So far, there's a lot of "no comment" entries in the spreadsheet they're building, and not surprisingly nobody is outright admitting that they sell clickstream data.

Related:
  1. Monday Morning Links
  2. Tuesday Morning Links
  3. Phorm Eyes U.S. ISPs
  4. Tuesday Evening Links
  5. Wednesday Evening Links
  6. ISP Sale Of User Browsing Data May Soon Explode
  7. Thursday Evening Links
  8. Comcast Tries Addressable Advertising Pilot in Baltimore
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brandon @ 10th Apr 01:36PM:
Clarification?

I'm assuming that's $60 per user per year and not $60 per year...
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MattE @ 10th Apr 01:37PM:
Re: Clarification?

said by brandon :

I'm assuming that's $60 per user per year and not $60 per year...
Yes, as evidenced by the singular "your".
--
Use the OS tool for the job.
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ph03n1x @ 10th Apr 01:38PM:
I Think I'm Okay With This...

... as long as it's done in aggregate and remains anonymous.
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chemaupr @ 10th Apr 01:48PM:
Re: I Think I'm Okay With This...

Same here. But if they are making that much of my use, I will like to see at least 2 bucks per month out of those 5 they are making credited on my bill.
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dadkins @ 10th Apr 01:48PM:
Hmmm...

Who gets all the pr0n clicky info?
MFers must be getting RICH from me alone! :o :D
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera
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ph03n1x @ 10th Apr 01:50PM:
Re: Hmmm...

The Internet is for porn!
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Maxo @ 10th Apr 01:56PM:
Re: I Think I'm Okay With This...

I am not. The default policy should be privacy.
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supergirl @ 10th Apr 02:03PM:
Re: Hmmm...

...And Geeks Created the Internet so Geeks could get Virtual XXX!
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anon @ 10th Apr 02:05PM:
if they make money off of me

... i want my inet for free
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Rxdoxx @ 10th Apr 02:06PM:
Big Brother is Your ISP

Aghh! Depressing.
All the efforts to keep a clean, spyware free system, and the service provider is selling you out the back door.
I know recently, I went looking for an AC unit. For days later I saw ads for units as I did other searches, so Google is also a tracker.
Maybe if ad-blocking becomes widespread, some of the lucrative revenue will dry up.
--
To be on a pedestal is to be in a corner
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ph03n1x @ 10th Apr 02:38PM:
Re: I Think I'm Okay With This...

As long as the data is aggregated, it should no longer contain any personally identifiable information. Only "W # of people browsed to X url at Y time of day or Z number of times". Of course, there's no guarantee that it's done in this manner.
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Doctor Four @ 10th Apr 02:52PM:
Of course Marketdroids are going to lie

When confronted with an issue such as this. Publicly,
they will all deny they track users, but if you were
to somehow get a hold of some of the ISP's internal
documents, you would find otherwise.

Marketers could care less about ISP users' privacy.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
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Zyniker @ 10th Apr 02:55PM:
Re: Big Brother is Your ISP

It's been fairly obvious for a while now that Google tracks user searches and has some questionable retention/classification policies...
--
The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds, the pessimist fears this is true.
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major marco @ 10th Apr 02:55PM:
Money-hungry, privacy violating bastards

I don't know about anyone else, but I usually prefer to kissed first before I get f*cked. :mad:
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masterwolfe @ 10th Apr 03:08PM:
Check this out

ETC (local phone company here) got my gf's name wrong when they signed her up, badly wrong, such as Lisa instead of Mary, and that is not her middle name or any sort of alias she uses. Within a week of her signing up, she was getting tons of junk snail mail addressed to Lisa... so when we moved into a house together, and I opened an account with them, I asked them to use just my first initial, and sure enough... I get tons of junk mail addressed to me by that name. And the lady I spoke with SWORE they don't sell or give out such info. Bull-CRAP they don't.
--
Dishplayer 625, DirecTV Plus R15, Windstream Ultra DSL
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peter_m @ 10th Apr 03:11PM:
Re: I Think I'm Okay With This...

I think we should be left out by default and opt-in by request in exchange for something... maybe a free service, a free router/firewall or a credit against the service fee...

Why should they be allowed to collect data on me, without my consent and then make money from it?
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peter_m @ 10th Apr 03:14PM:
Re: Big Brother is Your ISP

Just delete your cookies!
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peter_m @ 10th Apr 03:16PM:
Re: Check this out

Scary that they would lie to you flat out! Must have some local laws that protect you from this?
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Surfinusa @ 10th Apr 03:21PM:
This sickens me

My privacy what privacy...

And I don't get any money out of it just a high priced ISP.
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Maxo @ 10th Apr 03:21PM:
Re: I Think I'm Okay With This...

My guess is we probably do opt in when we sign their Draconian EULA. :(
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ph03n1x @ 10th Apr 03:45PM:
Re: I Think I'm Okay With This...

said by Maxo :

My guess is we probably do opt in when we sign their Draconian EULA. :(
More than likely so.
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masterwolfe @ 10th Apr 03:56PM:
Re: Check this out

The CSR might not even be aware... who knows? Shortly thereafter, I canceled my account with them, since they also lied about a supposed upgrade in my area, which never happened.
--
Dishplayer 625, DirecTV Plus R15, Windstream Ultra DSL
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shoan @ 10th Apr 04:06PM:
Re: Hmmm...

AMEN brother. There is so much pron watched on my PC at home that it should be growing hair by now.
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Dagda1175 @ 10th Apr 04:10PM:
Lets see it

I want to see some of this data. If its ACTUALLY done in aggregate and anonymous numbers, then its actually better than the hands on ankles probing you get with every google search.
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odinb @ 10th Apr 04:10PM:
Re: Check this out

SBC (now AT&T) does a similar thing. As soon as your phone is active (same day or day after), the "please donate to this or that" starts coming in massively. I had to shut off the ringer to stop it, I was getting 2-3 calls per day after a couple of weeks....

I never gave out that number to anyone, since my main line is a VOIP line, and the SBC-one was just to get a discount on the DSL. The rep clearly stated that they did not sell my number when I asked, yeah, sure...

Now I do not even connect a phone to the AT&T line anymore, so they can call all they want.

This has never happened to me on any of my VOIP-lines...
--
Type "miserable failure" in Google
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clickie @ 10th Apr 04:26PM:
Should Be Easy to Fix

Data is useless if it can't be discerned from noise; so just give them a lot of noise. I think some sort of spider that slowly, but faithfully just follows links all day long. It wouldn't take long for any value to this information to be diluted to worthless.

Fight technology with, technology.
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Michieru @ 10th Apr 04:53PM:
Re: Lets see it

LOL you think any company and especially those in marketing (bullshitters in a suit) will actually say "Here is the data".

My friend....good luck on that.
--
The only limits we have are the one's we set ourselves.
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T1 Rocky @ 10th Apr 05:13PM:
Re: Should Be Easy to Fix

I've worked in the ISP business since 1998 (non ILECs) and noone has ever come to me and asked to buy information. But then again, I've never worked for a telco. I think your going to find that if this is real it was only for the cable and telcos ISP's. And $5 per user? Something smells very fishy. Who is going to be nuts enough to buy it for $5 per user per month? That's just crazy. Then how are they going to tie it to you? How often does anyone use their ISP's mail box these days? There's too much in this story that doesn't add up. I question the credibility of this story.

PS Bill Gates is tracking a new post tracking software and if you post after this post then he will send all of us $5.
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heathcpe @ 10th Apr 06:14PM:
Intelectual Property

Maybe we should all send DCMA notices to our ISPs for violating our IP rights. I believe we own the copyrights associated with our clickstreams or browsing history. Maybe I'll publish it in a book.
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major marco @ 10th Apr 07:07PM:
Re: Intelectual Property

said by heathcpe :

Maybe we should all send DCMA notices to our ISPs for violating our IP rights. I believe we own the copyrights associated with our clickstreams or browsing history. Maybe I'll publish it in a book.
Hmmm, copyright on clickstream. I think you're onto something.
--
The Toll


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major marco @ 10th Apr 07:18PM:
PAOGA

PAOGA For those who DO mind who is in control of their clickstream data.
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rradina @ 10th Apr 07:52PM:
Re: Big Brother is Your ISP

I would guess Google does more than just cookies. Most folks who have a router hooked to their cable modem (not sure about DSL) keep the same IP for months and months. I'll bet Google leverages this fact in an attempt to track you even if you delete your cookies.
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peter_m @ 10th Apr 08:49PM:
Re: Check this out

You are right, the CSR might not be the problem and she might have been told to answer that way. As a corporation, they still lied to you.
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dvd536 @ 10th Apr 09:07PM:
Doubleclick

And Cox
-
ever wonder why an email address just minutes old gets spam? ;)
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth
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dvd536 @ 10th Apr 09:08PM:
Re: Hmmm...

said by dadkins :

Who gets all the pr0n clicky info?
MFers must be getting RICH from me alone! :o :D
MMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmm porn :)
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth
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dvd536 @ 10th Apr 09:11PM:
Re: Big Brother is Your ISP

I have more than one ISP, when i am SEEDING i use my "Linksys" ISP :D
not using MY cap to share :)
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth
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the niTz @ 10th Apr 09:46PM:
Re: Doubleclick

hmm never got anyspam from doubleclick i still get viagra once in a bluemoon and sometimes a blank email with absolutely nothing in it
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01000111 01110010 01100101 01100101 01100011 01100101 00100000 01001111 01110111 01101110 01110011
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RR Conductor @ 11th Apr 12:48AM:
Re: Hmmm...

That's sad, and sickening, especially the fact you not only admit it freely, you boast about it :(

Now don't take my statement the wrong way, I'm sure you're a great guy, and a very good person, I just am saddened by all the porn out there.
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David @ 11th Apr 05:27AM:
Re: Check this out

Well I hate to kind of burst your bubble, and the only reason why I am bursting it is on something that you may or may not know.

Two things you need to know.

1.) I have worked for a telemarketing company for a short amount of time in my life. Yea it was 1996 if memory serves, only worked there about 3 months max. It didn't pay worth a crap, and I am just not that good of a salesman. It was one of those things "Ok I tried it once in my life, not going to do it again." type of deals.

2.) Been working for at&t for about 7 years.

So I can qualify myself for both sides of the fence.

When you buy a new phone number or a land line with any traditional telephone company, or ILEC. It's been long known that most phone companies, including CLEC's, have always published a directory. Since way before ma bell was ever broken up they published a white pages and a yellow pages. I think the yellow pages came later (I will have to look this up when I have a spare hour). The white pages printed in public everyone's name and phone number. Now something you didn't know. There's a directory out there called the "haynes Criss-cross directory" (»www.haines.com/index.html). Basically this is one of many companies that takes a local directory and compiles it with other local directories, basically for marketing purposes. They sell disks and such to load inside of auto dialers and such for telemarketers. Now you probably ask how do they get the local numbers? Shockingly enough they pay for them! It's public information so why not? They even pay more money for more recent ones. I have heard that some people even got paid to send companies such as these those books.

Now I know this is going to be shocking and I thought about it for a few years and thought there was nothing I could do. Till one day at a gas station I talked to someone who was annoyed as I was. The guy across from me and him said "Get an unlisted number, solved my problem!"

Now I kind of thought $1.60 a month was nothing much so I gave it a shot. Switched the number and the new one was unlisted. Sure enough, my calls I got in 1998-1999 were virtually nil. I couldn't count the number of sales calls I got on one hand. The other thing it did was when people dialed your old number, they didn't get your new one. You had to give it out. Opposed to the switch telling you that the number has been changed and here it is.

Now why is VoIP exclusive? Well last time I checked a VoIP company don't provide phone books, like a traditional ILEC/CLEC does. I think the ILEC is required to provide a free White pages and the yellow pages are paid by local companies in your area. I don't think VoIP is required to do this. If they are ever required to I would expect this telemarketing tide to change and not for the better. Plus there is probably nothing in your EULA that says they can't sell those numbers at any point in time. Cell phones got excluded by the FCC because people pay for minutes for calls received and made. VoIP, while I like it and even assist customers with it on occasion, will probably break down and do it after a while. I don't think people with VoIP pay per call sent and received least the vonage ads don't say it on tv. So if vonage was desperate for cash they could publish their lists, there's nothing that says they can't. Even then the national do not call list might apply, or might not.

Morale of the story: Your phone number that is of an ILEC base or land line belongs to an ILEC/CLEC and typically is required to be published (I honestly think it is either a courtesy or a requirement). You can probably defeat this on 3 fronts.

1.) national do not call lists
2.) state level do not call lists
3.) unlisted number.

The last sales person that called me on my home phone here was about 6 months ago. Only reason he knew our number was we gave it out at a home improvement show in STL. So do I consider all three of those a success. Well I am not answering my phone much less hear it ring every day of the week. More of my wife's friends call than anything.
--
If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do this.
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ebubman @ 11th Apr 06:47AM:
Re: Doubleclick

what????? comcast try to make money on me????? nahhhhhh! it'll never happen.
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vinnie97 @ 11th Apr 08:42AM:
Re: Hmmm...

yup, it's cheap.
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vinnie97 @ 11th Apr 08:43AM:
Re: Hmmm...

put down your d*ck...
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vinnie97 @ 11th Apr 08:46AM:
Re: Big Brother is Your ISP

mooching off the unsuspecting neighbors to get your self-satisfaction? For shame.
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morbo @ 11th Apr 12:15PM:
Re: Check this out

customers should not have to pay any monthly fee to avoid harassment by telemarketers, due to AT&T/phone company basically selling your information.

yes yes. do not call lists, and what not. but those take MONTHS to go through. in the mean time, multiple unsolicited calls per day.

the default should always be PRIVACY. unless consumers ask for it, PRIVACY SHOULD BE THE DEFAULT.

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David @ 11th Apr 01:10PM:
Re: Check this out

Well I guess you could tell the ILECs to stop selling or even giving away the white pages I guess. But then again if the ILECs/CLECs give the phone books away for free, and I wanted to make a quick $25 plus free shipping to one of these places who's to stop me? or anyone for that matter?

:uhh:
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novaflare @ 11th Apr 01:25PM:
Re: Big Brother is Your ISP

said by vinnie97 :

mooching off the unsuspecting neighbors to get your self-satisfaction? For shame.
Thats nothing friend has a beta card (pre n) that is acctually 4 wifi cards in one nice compact usb houseing. It has a special software bundle that auto bridges any connections it finds in range. We too his laptop to local hot spot for open wifi aps. Conected to 4 diffrent ones had had well 2x roadrunner turbo (10mb cons 1 up)1 normal road runner cooking along at 6mb down 512 up and one of the better dsl packages at 5 down .75 up. Did a couple test downloads and got fairly insane speeds where it normally says like 500KB is said 1868KB.
It really ment for large corps wich is how they are marketing it. This way if you need to go to another floor and loose a ap conection you are still conected to one or more likely with crappy connection but enough to not screw up a big transfer then pick up another one.

Id say if we ever see full blown muni wifi it will be damn popular for that. Drive around and your friend spouse or kids are playing their fave online game.

Mostly off topic but well isps selling data and google etc tracking you heh. When your spread out over 3 or 4 ips heh kind of screws things up for em dont it :)
--
Evil does exist and it has a face to often that face is one that should look on their child with love in their eyes.

Instead only hate exists in those eyes.
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brandon @ 11th Apr 01:42PM:
Re: Clarification?

said by MattE :

said by brandon :

I'm assuming that's $60 per user per year and not $60 per year...
Yes, as evidenced by the singular "your".
And you're assuming "your" is singular...why?

In context, your is plural until the clarification of $60 per user per year is inserted.

Example: "John, I'm giving you your car back." - your = singular

"Class, I'm giving you your test back." - your = plural

Edit: And the clarification was inserted, for the record, and it reads much better. In fact, the dollar amount was changed, too...
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coxengr @ 11th Apr 05:45PM:
Raking in the money.....

$5/month/user? Come on, that doesn't even pass the sanity check. So let's take Comcast as an example. 11.5mil customers. That would be almost $700mil per year! No way.
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