Verizon DNS Redirection - The latest ISP to profit off your butterfingers
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dennismurphy @ 20th Jun 09:24AM:
Opt-out
Not that I like this idea - at all - but at least there's an opt-out for it ...
From the article:
"If you would prefer not to receive Advanced Web Search pages from Verizon, you should follow the opt-out instructions that are available by clicking on the "About the Search Results Page" link on any Advanced Web Search page."
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ropeguru @ 20th Jun 09:26AM:
The next step...
Will be blocking all DNS requests going outside of their networks so you will be forced to use the ISP's DNS.
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FWD#: 223611
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ColorBASIC @ 20th Jun 09:26AM:
Thanks for breaking stuff dorks
I guess $1.5 Bah bah bah BILLION in profit isn't enough for the greedy jerkoffs.
What's next? A "you haven't used enough long distance" fee?
Oh wait, they already have that. »New Verizon Fee For Not Using Long Distance
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire
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Havicaz @ 20th Jun 09:27AM:
Opt-Out
Charter's way to "opt-out" is to put a cookie on your computer to redirect you to a fake page not found screen. In reality they are sending you to a copy of the IE page, which is amusing, because when in firefox or any other browser it still points you to that. This still defeats the purpose and is not true DNS, because it is still returning a response and pointing you to their fake page not found page. I hope Verizon's is different.
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Mactron @ 20th Jun 09:46AM:
Re: Thanks for breaking stuff dorks
said by ColorBASIC :
What's next? A "you haven't used enough long distance" fee?
That created a VZ customer that opted out. Dropped VZ long distance and went to a no monthly fee LD carrier. ;)
This DNS foolishness will cause yet another op out from this cusmomer. ;) OpenDNS here I come. :D
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If only the Verizon CSRs worked this well. ;)
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raythompsontn @ 20th Jun 09:50AM:
Re: Thanks for breaking stuff dorks
said by Mactron :
This DNS foolishness will cause yet another op out from this cusmomer. ;) OpenDNS here I come. :D
OpenDNS will also return their custom page when an address is not found. This is no different than what Verizon is doing. So what are you going to gain?
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tschmidt @ 20th Jun 09:57AM:
Re: The next step...
Hopefully it will not come to that since I use TreeWalk DNS on our home LAN rather then Verizon's DNS resolver.
/tom
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Mactron @ 20th Jun 10:04AM:
Re: Thanks for breaking stuff dorks
said by raythompsontn :
This is no different than what Verizon is doing. So what are you going to gain?
It's NOT Verizon ?!! ;)
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If only the Verizon CSRs worked this well. ;)
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JohnBrowning @ 20th Jun 10:30AM:
BFD
I'm constantly amazed at how so many people go out of their way to find something to bitch about. Life is much more pleasant if you just take a step back.
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raythompsontn @ 20th Jun 10:38AM:
Re: Thanks for breaking stuff dorks
said by Mactron :
It's NOT Verizon ?!! ;)
Silly me. I did not realize that Verizon was that nefarious.
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Rob @ 20th Jun 10:48AM:
Re: BFD
said by JohnBrowning :
I'm constantly amazed at how so many people go out of their way to find something to bitch about. Life is much more pleasant if you just take a step back.
If people didn't bitch, then AT&T would still be the original AT&T charging us to lease phones from them. We'd be on 128/128 DSL and paying up the ass. Our cable companies would be charging us outrageous fees..
Nothing much has changed.
--
YourIP.US - It's Your IP .. and more!
rr.cx - Personal Site.. coming soon.
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MooJohn @ 20th Jun 10:52AM:
Re: BFD
said by JohnBrowning :
I'm constantly amazed at how so many people go out of their way to find something to bitch about. Life is much more pleasant if you just take a step back.
If you realized that this affects far more than simple web browsing, you'd understand why we're so annoyed. It goes beyond revenue generation for Verizon -- it breaks an important aspect of core internet operation.
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hopeflicker @ 20th Jun 10:57AM:
Re: BFD
SPs suggest the service is a tool for helping wayward web surfers
--------------------------------------------
isn't that swell? They are thinking of us. Wow! a new and useful tool, and it's freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
--
Fossils, Not Gospels.
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nh5 @ 20th Jun 11:37AM:
dns redirection
As soon as this hits here back to cable I go.
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Rob @ 20th Jun 11:44AM:
Re: dns redirection
said by nh5 :
As soon as this hits here back to cable I go.
Just change your DNS Servers.
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FastiBook @ 20th Jun 11:46AM:
Sounds pointless.
This sounds pointless.
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Yauch @ 20th Jun 11:59AM:
Re: Thanks for breaking stuff dorks
They are teh evil capitalist pigs. All of the revenue he'll be generating for OpenDNS goes straight to buying puppies for cute little kids. The kind with dimples, wearing little sailor outfits. It's off the cuteness scale. Verizon hates puppies, and I even heard that they kick puppies.
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bmn @ 20th Jun 12:05PM:
Re: BFD
said by JohnBrowning :
I'm constantly amazed at how so many people go out of their way to find something to bitch about.
You do realize that there are technical people on this site - systems administrators, network administrators, network engineers (guys who deal with Cisco, Foundry, etc. not telco/cable stuff)... We make a stink about this stuff because it, by technical definition, breaks the internet.
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Prove it...
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ColorBASIC @ 20th Jun 12:35PM:
Re: Thanks for breaking stuff dorks
They don't kick them, they smother them.
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bmn @ 20th Jun 01:10PM:
Re: dns redirection
At least try some alternate servers first... Here's a list of the best, and probably more reliable, DNS servers on the net:
4.2.2.1
4.2.2.2
4.2.2.3
4.2.2.4
4.2.2.5
Pick two and try them out. MUCH better than OpenDNS.
--
Prove it...
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anon @ 20th Jun 01:43PM:
Re: dns redirection
Not to come down hard, but I'm not that familiar with those. How can I trust who provides those DNS servers.
I'm not an expert in this area, but just off the top of my head I could imagine a nefarius DNS operator to randomly redirect every 1000th page to an IP hosting a range of exploits. Naturally you wouldn't go to that page normally, but if the DNS returns the IP for CNN.com as 203.44.11.2 which is a malicious site hosting a HTTP server...
Or am I reading too much into it?
(I would like to use a good DNS service other than RoadRunner's, but I just want to be safe)
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plencnerb @ 20th Jun 01:28PM:
Why is an error page a bad thing?
I guess what I'm not understanding is why do the ISP's feel the need to do this. If I type in a wrong web site, and I get an error screen, what is so bad about that? I think it would be better to see that the web site I typed in is incorrect. The error could have been me typing it in wrong, or it could be the person that gave me the website (either via e-mail, talking, etc).
I'm not the best speller in the world, and while I'm all for computers helping me out with that (ie spellchecker), it should not do it automatically. In this case, I feel it would be better for the standard DNS error page to come up that says "Page not found".
--Brian
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============================
--Brian Plencner
E-Mail: bplencnerCancer@wi.rr.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail
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Indymike @ 20th Jun 01:51PM:
Re: Why is an error page a bad thing?
pure and simple....
MONEY
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insomniac84 @ 20th Jun 03:47PM:
I remember when...
I remember when ISPs use to provide decent newsgroups, not of course they do not. Are we going to be saying the same thing about dns?
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MooJohn @ 20th Jun 04:07PM:
Re: dns redirection
A quick whois will show you those belong to GTEi / Genuity / Level 3 Communications. Those are the primary and backup caching name servers for their customers. They just happen to be easy IPs to remember and thus are used by many others.
I'd also be wary of using just any ol' name server but these are well known and used by thousands of people.
--
John M - Cranky network guy
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spud @ 20th Jun 04:08PM:
Re: dns redirection
said by bmn :
At least try some alternate servers first... Here's a list of the best, and probably more reliable, DNS servers on the net:
4.2.2.1
4.2.2.2
4.2.2.3
4.2.2.4
4.2.2.5
Pick two and try them out. MUCH better than OpenDNS.
But those are Verizon DNS servers what this article is about no
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JohnBrowning @ 20th Jun 05:26PM:
Re: BFD
said by bmn :said by JohnBrowning :
I'm constantly amazed at how so many people go out of their way to find something to bitch about.
You do realize that there are technical people on this site - systems administrators, network administrators, network engineers (guys who deal with Cisco, Foundry, etc. not telco/cable stuff)... We make a stink about this stuff because it, by technical definition, breaks the internet.
Of course I understand fully understand that. I am a network engineer. It doesn't "break the internet". I still say folks need to take a chill pill.
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matrix3D @ 20th Jun 06:08PM:
Re: The next step...
They can't block you from running a DNS server on a Linux machine from within your home network.
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bmn @ 20th Jun 06:55PM:
Re: BFD
said by JohnBrowning :
It doesn't "break the internet".
Actually, I kindly submit that it does. When an application is expecting an NXDOMAIN domain response for a non-existent domain, but instead is given an IP redirect, big problems abound.
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Prove it...
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bmn @ 20th Jun 06:57PM:
Re: dns redirection
said by spud :said by bmn :
At least try some alternate servers first... Here's a list of the best, and probably more reliable, DNS servers on the net:
4.2.2.1
4.2.2.2
4.2.2.3
4.2.2.4
4.2.2.5
Pick two and try them out. MUCH better than OpenDNS.
But those are Verizon DNS servers what this article is about no
Those servers are different from the servers that are referenced in the article. The 4.2.2.x servers are large cache servers run sort of as a public service to the internet. The servers the article talks about are the ones that are assigned to subs through PPPoE and DHCP.
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Prove it...
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tyscoj @ 20th Jun 07:08PM:
Re: Thanks for breaking stuff dorks
said by raythompsontn :said by Mactron :
This DNS foolishness will cause yet another op out from this cusmomer. ;) OpenDNS here I come. :D
OpenDNS will also return their custom page when an address is not found. This is no different than what Verizon is doing. So what are you going to gain?
This is an option that you can enable/disable via OpenDNS. You should check your preferences =D
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tyscoj @ 20th Jun 07:11PM:
Re: BFD
It may not necessarily "break the internet" itself, but it does break some applications/tools. I'm also sure that there is some rule or regulation it violates.
SPAM Filters are the #1 item it would break considering the software couldnt tell if the domain was valid or not if they all come back as valid (Redirecting to some live IP).
There are many more, just look at the issues it caused a few years ago.
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major marco @ 20th Jun 08:30PM:
Re: dns redirection
said by bmn :
At least try some alternate servers first... Here's a list of the best, and probably more reliable, DNS servers on the net:
4.2.2.1
4.2.2.2
4.2.2.3
4.2.2.4
4.2.2.5
Pick two and try them out. MUCH better than OpenDNS.
Exactly what makes above-referenced DNS servers "much better" than OpenDNS?
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The Toll
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tschmidt @ 20th Jun 08:38PM:
Re: The next step...
said by matrix3D :
They can't block you from running a DNS server on a Linux machine from within your home network.
Sure they can. All they need to do is limit TCP port 53 access to machines within the Verizon network.
You can run any DNS resolver you want but if Verizon blocks access at the edge it will be for naught.
/tom
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ColorBASIC @ 20th Jun 09:09PM:
Re: Thanks for breaking stuff dorks
I use opendns preferences and don't see that option.
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dvd536 @ 20th Jun 09:53PM:
Its all about . . . . . .
The benjamins!
corporate GREED at its best.
seems like everyones doing this now.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth
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bmn @ 20th Jun 10:21PM:
Re: dns redirection
said by major marco :said by bmn :
At least try some alternate servers first... Here's a list of the best, and probably more reliable, DNS servers on the net:
4.2.2.1
4.2.2.2
4.2.2.3
4.2.2.4
4.2.2.5
Pick two and try them out. MUCH better than OpenDNS.
Exactly what makes above-referenced DNS servers "much better" than OpenDNS?
1. Standards compliant. (big one)
2. Run by a trusted company. (OpenDNS is a NEW company, versus Level3 or Verizon)
3. More reliable. (There are more of them and they are anycast enabled.)
4. More widely used, ergo better and faster caches.
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Prove it...
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Piggie @ 20th Jun 10:59PM:
Re: dns redirection
I found the 4.2.2.x faster for both Hughes.net and Windstream.net, hands down. My router insists on using my ISP, so I just set them in my windows box as my DNS. Much faster.
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batterup @ 21st Jun 04:53AM:
FiOS is expensive.
Let stupid people pay for it.
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JohnBrowning @ 21st Jun 09:58AM:
Re: BFD
said by tyscoj :
It may not necessarily "break the internet" itself, but it does break some applications/tools. I'm also sure that there is some rule or regulation it violates.
SPAM Filters are the #1 item it would break considering the software couldnt tell if the domain was valid or not if they all come back as valid (Redirecting to some live IP).
There are many more, just look at the issues it caused a few years ago.
Now, that's fair. I agree it does break some applications & tools. It seems to me that the root of most of the objections I read is some unreasonable distaste for somebody trying to make a buck. If nobody was making a buck, there'd be no networks.
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bmn @ 21st Jun 01:02PM:
Re: BFD
said by JohnBrowning :
It seems to me that the root of most of the objections I read is some unreasonable distaste for somebody trying to make a buck.
Good point and I agree, but to an extent, they are off base. Trying to make a buck by violating established internet standards isn't a good business practice. If Verizon had instead released something like a browser plugin that allowed people to opt-in to the service, I would be all for it, as long is it works well and doesn't just present them with unrelated ads like some redirect services have been known to do. This way, everyone would win - you would maintain the integrity of the network at the protocol level, Verizon could make a few fucks, customers who want the feature could have it and those who don't could opt-out.
--
Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service!
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Kylemaul @ 22nd Jul 07:31PM:
Well it became a PITA for me...
My firewall started going apecrap over Verizon's DNS mismanagement. See this thread for details:
»[Help] Killing ALL x-mission from an IP.
No longer using Verizon's DNS--and don't really care--as long as there are decent independent ones out there like OpenDNS, et al.
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anon @ 9th Aug 01:23AM:
Just add your own DNS servers
I'm in Portland Oregon, so I just added 128.193.0.10 and 128.193.4.20 as nameservers 1 and 2 to my router and that seemed to fix everything.
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