Comcast Says They'll Play Nice With Vonage - Continues 'open and neutral' show for investigating FCC

Comcast Says They'll Play Nice With Vonage - Continues 'open and neutral' show for investigating FCC
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Comcast Says They'll Play Nice With Vonage
Continues 'open and neutral' show for investigating FCC
01:04PM Wednesday Jul 09 2008 by Karl Bode
tags: competition · business · bandwidth · cable · VoIP · Comcast · Vonage

Comcast today announced an agreement with Vonage that will "address the reasonable network management of Internet services," according to a press release. The new cooperation is aimed at ensuring Comcast uses network management techniques that address congestion without disrupting or degrading delivery of third party VoIP services. The announcement wasn't accompanied with a shred of actual technical specifics, and is aimed at showing the FCC (who is still investigating Comcast) that they can play well with others.

Comcast spent much of the past year taking a beating for their decision to use packet forgery to disrupt BitTorrent. Once the FCC began investigating the company, they announced plans for more transparent network management techniques that I subsequently discovered involve clear 250GB monthly caps, increased DMCA letter enforcement, targeted throttling of high consumption users, and the acceleration of legal P2P traffic.

According to Comcast CTO Tony Werner, this latest, completely vague move demonstrates "that we are committed to provide network management solutions that benefit consumers and competition." Cable operators now control more than 80% of the VoIP market, and that number continues to rise, largely thanks to cable triple play introductory offers.

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Pizz @ 9th Jul 12:46PM:
I wonder

How many other cable co's are degrading VOIP services. I know when i had ATT Calladvantage, i had frequent poor quality of calls over time warner cable lines. I was one of the many who took the triple play deal..
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Rick @ 9th Jul 12:50PM:
This was a joint press release....

Not a technical paper.

In the business world one wouldn't expect them to include technical specifics in a press release of that sort.

I also wouldn't expect Comcast to spell out how they do anything technically related anyway. Nothing like handing over to their competitors free technical advise if they did.

Apparently Vonage is happy with what they're doing. Enough so to make this announcement jointly.
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic!
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KrK @ 9th Jul 12:50PM:
Re: I wonder

That type of thing is why net neutrality is necessary.
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SSX4life @ 9th Jul 01:14PM:
Re: I wonder

Hey Rick meet my friend "spin".... "spin" meet rick, now get acquainted.
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ptrowski @ 9th Jul 01:29PM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

AKA Comcast admitting they were messing with Vonage VoIP calls.
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MrMoody @ 9th Jul 01:31PM:
Re: I wonder

Yes, and Comcast is paying lip service to "playing nice" because they don't want neutrality laws. As long as net neutrality isn't law, they can continue to mildly degrade competing VoIP over their network, just enough to make it annoying, and make deals with VoIP companies to reduce the degradation.
--
The public is a poor business manager.
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Rick @ 9th Jul 01:33PM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

said by ptrowski :

AKA Comcast admitting they were messing with Vonage VoIP calls.

I know numerous people with vonage using it over comcasts lines the last year.

Not a single one ever had a problem.

Do you have any facts to support your rampant speculation?
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ptrowski @ 9th Jul 01:37PM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

said by Rick :

said by ptrowski :

AKA Comcast admitting they were messing with Vonage VoIP calls.

I know numerous people with vonage using it over comcasts lines the last year.

Not a single one ever had a problem.

Do you just run around making things up or what?

Check the Vonage forums here and vongage-forums.com

So Comcast just for giggles decides to have this press release with them? Come on.

I like how you use the reasoning of saying "I know people who do it so it must not be true".

Nice edit of your post, glad I quoted it.

Here is just some threads from our Vonage forums...

»/nsearch?q=com···s=%2C271
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bjbrock @ 9th Jul 01:43PM:
I'm sick of hearing about congestion.

Whether thru government subsidies or increased rates, broadband providers need to be forced to increase network capacities. The money they spend on trying to destroy their competition through propaganda could go a long ways towards increasing capacities. The investments need to be made whether willingly or by legilation. There is no reason why network congestion should even be a factor today.

The money needs to be spent on the infrastructure. Lack of capacities need to be a thing of the past so we can get on with letting the Internet be all it can be. It's time to force broadband providers to stop using the excuse of capacity to controll their competition.

I think the entire broadband infrastructure should be nationalized because the current owners can't manage them responsibly.
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Rick @ 9th Jul 01:44PM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

said by ptrowski :

I like how you use the reasoning of saying "I know people who do it so it must not be true".

I'd say my reasoning which is based on personal knowledge of these people and their vonage service and Comcast connection is far superior to your source which seems to be
"check the post of some stranger in a forum".

You're so quick to assess blame on comcast apparently without considering at all the fact that who knows what their real issue was? Perhaps it was their internet connection in general or the fact that Vonages calls completely rely on using the public internet, traveling over many networks.

Instead..you turn that into "Comcast admitting that they're messing with VOIP calls".

Quite the leap there on your part if you ask me.
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KrK @ 9th Jul 01:46PM:
Re: I wonder

I'd have to agree. This is PR, they made some deal with Vonage for the publicity and to get mileage out of it on the lobbying agenda.

So they put Vonage up on a pedestal as an example of their "new" policies.

Course, should they actually win the long term battle (and achieve their agenda- banning net neutrality type regulations) they'll be able to kick that pedestal out from under Vonage (and other Net competitors) at the snap of their fingers.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)
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EPS @ 9th Jul 01:55PM:
Re: I'm sick of hearing about congestion.

And you sounded like you had the right idea before the nationalization thing...

Sometimes I wonder if competition is the problem here, and if a regulated monopoly would be better, though even then I have doubts... But a government-owned monopoly would simply be asking for trouble.
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TK Junk Mail @ 9th Jul 01:55PM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

said by Rick :

Apparently Vonage is happy with what they're doing. Enough so to make this announcement jointly.

And that is the point. Vonage knows that they will get QOS routing thru the network.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
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fatmanskinny @ 9th Jul 01:57PM:
Re: I'm sick of hearing about congestion.

said by EPS :

But a government-owned monopoly would simply be asking for trouble.

...since they cannot properly manage other things on their plate.
--
The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary.
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Rick @ 9th Jul 01:58PM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

said by TK Junk Mail :

said by Rick :

Apparently Vonage is happy with what they're doing. Enough so to make this announcement jointly.

And that is the point. Vonage knows that they will get QOS routing thru the network.

Nice for them. But that hardly addresses the entire premise that Vonage is based on..routing through any network..anywhere..at anytime.

If they have quality issues..it's because of that.
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic!
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anon @ 9th Jul 02:14PM:
Yes, Comcast DOES mess with 3rd party VOIP

Yes, Comcast DOES mess with 3rd party VOIP. I have a rock solid Comcast cable modem with 10mb down / 2mb+ upload and can't manage to make a single VOIP call without either delays, jitter, or the call just "dropping" after a few min. I recently added a cheal DSL line with 4mb down and 384k up and VOIP works perfect - not a single dropped call!!! Comcast should be SHUT DOWN for pulling this BS w/ us. Many others w/ same issue - I am not the only one that had VOIP suck on Comcast EXCEPT *Their* "Comcast Digital Voice" VOIP... Those bast**ds... Think we are that dumb, huh??
People - go for QUALITY not Quantity - avoid Comcrap!!!
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Cabal @ 9th Jul 02:34PM:
Re: Yes, Comcast DOES mess with 3rd party VOIP

No complaints in the Comcast forum. No issues here with the 5+ providers I use for work testing on Comcast.
--
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
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dnoyeB @ 9th Jul 02:35PM:
No problems

I have not had a single problem since I upgraded my router. Sounds good as a land line. That was January.

Zyxel Zywall 2+
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anon @ 9th Jul 02:44PM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

My take is Comcast and every other ISP should be able to do whatever the heck they want to their network in order to maximize revenue AND benefit consumers by increasing the value of their products. So in light of the reality that is "best effort" for all consumer ISP offerings, Comcast shouldn't be making concessions to their network like this.

In addition, I can't imagine stockholders will be too happy about about granting special treatment to a company offering a competing product.
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ptrowski @ 9th Jul 02:45PM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

said by Rick :

said by ptrowski :

I like how you use the reasoning of saying "I know people who do it so it must not be true".

Come on, let's be serious here. This is a PR stunt trying to show that Comcast has "turned a new leaf". I used Vonage for quite a while and was very active in the vonage-forums. There are cases where people would use Vonage on a Comcast connection that tested "clean" and had issues, and then tried another connection and it was clear.

Interstingly enough a crop of issues popped up around the time Comcast was launching CDV. Am I saying they mess with every VoIP call? No. Was there enough evidence that pointed to it? Sure.

Remember, Comcast said they never used Sandvine and denied it until they were dragged into the light. This is only a PR stunt, just like when they made their announcement with Bit Torrent. Have a press release, snap a few pictures, look how we are playing nice.

Should Vonage become a bit more of a business threat, then they will fall into "reasonable network management".
--
"A religious war is like children fighting over who has the strongest imaginary friend."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org
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Cod @ 9th Jul 02:46PM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

said by Rick :

I'd say my reasoning...

Aaah, yes- the unjaded and unbiased reasoning of Comcasts #1 coolaid drinker...
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anon @ 9th Jul 02:47PM:
Re: Yes, Comcast DOES mess with 3rd party VOIP

Dude, sounds like you've got a problem with bandwidth hogs on your node. If people would let them manage their network (ie, blasting the crap out of p2p and bittorrent), I'd guess you'd have a much better experience.
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Cheese @ 9th Jul 02:50PM:
Re: I wonder

said by KrK :

I'd have to agree. This is PR, they made some deal with Vonage for the publicity and to get mileage out of it on the lobbying agenda.

So they put Vonage up on a pedestal as an example of their "new" policies.

Course, should they actually win the long term battle (and achieve their agenda- banning net neutrality type regulations) they'll be able to kick that pedestal out from under Vonage (and other Net competitors) at the snap of their fingers.

I wouldn't call it pulling out the pedestal, more like slashing their throats.
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Cheese @ 9th Jul 02:53PM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

said by Cod :

said by Rick :

I'd say my reasoning...

Aaah, yes- the unjaded and unbiased reasoning of Comcasts #1 coolaid drinker...

Psssst, it's Koolaid ;)
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houghe9 @ 9th Jul 02:59PM:
?

quote:
Comcast today announced an agreement with Vonage that will "address the reasonable network management of Internet services,"

said by Rick :
Perhaps it was their internet connection in general or the fact that Vonages calls completely rely on using the public internet, traveling over many networks.

Perhaps you do not see the flaw in your argument.
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Der_Idiot @ 9th Jul 03:07PM:
Re: Yes, Comcast DOES mess with 3rd party VOIP

Yes, shut down the only competition to the phone company. Brilliant. :uhh:
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ptrowski @ 9th Jul 03:10PM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

said by Cod :

said by Rick :

I'd say my reasoning...

Aaah, yes- the unjaded and unbiased reasoning of Comcasts #1 coolaid drinker...

Yes, his reasoning and sampling of other Comcast afficianados is of course always correct. Comcast HD is flawless, they don't throttle or interfere with VOIP at all, and they love puppies.
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en102 @ 9th Jul 03:15PM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

Since Comcast typically sells service as 6Mbps and higher, there typically should be very little issue.

I'm on a 3Mbps/512kbps ADSL line (read 2600/420kbps throughput), and I use Skype all the time for conference calls w/o issue. I even use it over a VPN + SSH tunneled + Squid proxy connection (VPN kills local access), and it works fine.
--
Canada = Hollywood North
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ptrowski @ 9th Jul 03:18PM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

said by en102 :

Since Comcast typically sells service as 6Mbps and higher, there typically should be very little issue.

I'm on a 3Mbps/512kbps ADSL line (read 2600/420kbps throughput), and I use Skype all the time for conference calls w/o issue. I even use it over a VPN + SSH tunneled + Squid proxy connection (VPN kills local access), and it works fine.

You can have great speeds, but if the packets are delayed or lost, then you will have poor voice audio.

That's why when people say "I have plenty of speed so it should be fine" that is not always the case. To diagnose poor voice I use www.testyourvoip.com vs a speedtest.
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JamesPC @ 9th Jul 03:30PM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

Exactly, not rocket science people.
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Rocketbob @ 9th Jul 03:59PM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

I had Vonage for three years under Insight with flawless service. As soon as Comcast took over I had nothing but problems. Dropped calls, ring unable to answer, clipping ect.
I had to drop Vonage and go back to Verizon. Also, the latency now is so high xbox live is almost unplayable.
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battleop @ 9th Jul 04:19PM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

Comcast should not HAVE to make concessions and QOS a competing VoIP companies service. However they should not degrade a competing companies service to make their look better.
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bogey780 @ 9th Jul 04:59PM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

Yup... claims that video that goes into outer space is inheritly inferior to comcast, VRADs will cause people to die, and now this.
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Titus Pullo @ 9th Jul 06:11PM:
"Comcast says ..."

you can just about stop there.
--
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Rick @ 9th Jul 07:17PM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

said by ptrowski :

said by Cod :

said by Rick :

I'd say my reasoning...

Aaah, yes- the unjaded and unbiased reasoning of Comcasts #1 coolaid drinker...

Yes, his reasoning and sampling of other Comcast afficianados is of course always correct. Comcast HD is flawless, they don't throttle or interfere with VOIP at all, and they love puppies.

And your reasoning is based on...what?
Not even being a Comcast nor Vonage customer?

Interesting perspective you have there.

Perhaps the real issues are with your AT&T ~ Viatalk setup and you're just posting in the wrong thread?
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hottboiinnc @ 9th Jul 08:04PM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

as it is said you never hear much good about a product or service but you always hear about the bitching. Especially here. People are always bitching about something when it doesnt go their way. Chances are they don't have something set up right.
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ptrowski @ 9th Jul 09:19PM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

said by Rick :

And your reasoning is based on...what?
Not even being a Comcast nor Vonage customer?

Interesting perspective you have there.

Perhaps the real issues are with your AT&T ~ Viatalk setup and you're just posting in the wrong thread?

Nope, my setup works just the way I want it to, but thanks for the concern. Thats is a nice thing about DSL for VoIP as I don't get the large fluctuations in speeds I used to on my old cable provider and I don't have to worry about my neighborhood being oversold. DSL historically plays better with VoIP than cable does.

Have you tried any VoIP besides CDV Rick? I have for almost 4 years, so I know a bit about it. I have been a Vonage customer in the past for close to two years.

Vonage is named on the press release, but this truly concerns any third party VoIP application which is not a Comcast product. Anyone using a third party VoIP product should be concerned over Comcast's "network management" practices.

My reasoning is based on posts on out Vonage forums here and other sites which is a good sampling of people that are not in bed with Comcast. Comcast had to be forced to admit they were f'ing with P2P. Who not see them "delaying" pakcets on their network they see as voip? Hell, they are not blocking them, just delaying them. In VoIP, delaying packets = crappy quality. So who will be blamed? Not Comcast, because their connection is "fast" in their mind. So VoIP gets the black eye while Comcast sells their CDV product for almost double the price.
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ptrowski @ 9th Jul 09:29PM:
Re: ?

said by houghe9 :

quote:
Comcast today announced an agreement with Vonage that will "address the reasonable network management of Internet services,"

said by Rick :
Perhaps it was their internet connection in general or the fact that Vonages calls completely rely on using the public internet, traveling over many networks.

Perhaps you do not see the flaw in your argument.

Of course not, it could NEVER be Comcast's fault according to Rick.
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qworster @ 9th Jul 09:35PM:
Re: I wonder

said by Pizz :

How many other cable co's are degrading VOIP services. I know when i had ATT Calladvantage, i had frequent poor quality of calls over time warner cable lines. I was one of the many who took the triple play deal..

Time Warner RR Exstreme (10,000/1000) trashed my Vonage connection-at times it became unusable. I finally moved all my VOIP to my DSL Extreme 3000/512 DSL connection and all the problems just went away.
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joeblow @ 9th Jul 10:42PM:
Comcast hire me to troll for you

Problem is when they mess with UDP packets they messed with my game playing as well. 2-4 % packet loss was "normal" all they way up the corporate ladder.
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ANWDREW @ 9th Jul 10:53PM:
Vonage Rocks on FIOS

Switched from Comcast to FIOS and have no more issues now.
FIOS is rock solid and never a glich, So Vonage allways is
working cristal clear (Test= 4.4) "Like calling next door"
»www.testyourvoip.com/
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ANWDREW @ 9th Jul 11:00PM:
Re: Comcast hire me to troll for you

I hated that about Comcast, I game as well.
And always its my fault per Comcast. I did every thing
possible to fix the issue. New line to the house inside /out, and new modem and router. All I needed was a change in ISP. And guess what?????
Vonage is working fine!
and Gaming as well!
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Rick @ 10th Jul 12:16AM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

Comcast has something like 24 million customers including 5 million phone customers.

Don't you think that if they were blocking or delaying voip traffic that more than a few people posting in a thread here or there complaining about their service would have known about it by now?

Vonage...viatalk, and all these other voip providers have one thing in common. They spend precious little time on their own isp's network in search of what they'd like to call a phone service. What you are proposing is something similar to you living in Ct..taking a trip to California..and blaming a section of I~84 for the reason you had a bad experience somewhere along the rest of that 3,000 mile journey. VOIP travels through all kinds of routers..all kinds of networks...all kinds of hops..completely unrelated to the individuals ISP.

But yet..you ..as a non Comcast..non vonage customer..feel qualified to not only blame Comcast..but to state with the utmost certainty that this joint press release with Vonage now "exposes" Comcast for what you'd like them to be....but which all those countless millions of others never had the experience you cite.

And, for your reference..you cite not even your own experience...but the post of some stranger in some forum for a service you don't have..on an isp you don't have.

Wow. Just.....Wow.
:uhh:
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic!
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ptrowski @ 10th Jul 06:17AM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

Not stranger, Rick, stangers, more than just a handful.

But I asked you have you ever used a third party VoIP provider before?

Here you are pointing fingers at me for not being a Comcast customer. I look at it from the other side. I have used VoIP for many years, and personally I have used them with 5 different ISP's, maybe more. I help friends with their issues and setups. So I don't care which provider it may be, but yes, ISP's mess with VoIP and Comcast has had their own amount of complaints.

But again, have YOU ever used Vonage, Viatalk, Packet8 etc provider before?

As for your reference, you cite not your experience either but a service you have NEVER used with an ISP you worship.
--
"A religious war is like children fighting over who has the strongest imaginary friend."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org
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Rick @ 10th Jul 07:56AM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

I have Comcast HSI and I've used both Vonage and another VOIP provider personally in the past.

And, it goes without saying that I've been a part of this site and forums for years and have seen many of the same kinds of posts you refer to.

I put little emphasis however on the above because it pales in comparison to the fact that with comcast being such a massive, nationwide ISP..with millions of customers and who knows how many more million people using their network from other isp's for voip purposes..that if what you're saying and suggesting had an ounce of truth to it..that it would be much more widespread than what a few people post here and there on this site re: their experience with vonage.

The problem with your case is that it would have to be an all or nothing proposition. Every person using VOIP would have a problem with using it with their Comcast connection and the Comcast forum would be full of complaints about it. And, as of my last reading of the forum I see exactly...none. And so, I'd suggest that it's far more likely that whatever individual issues people have..they're just that..individual.. and attributed to other things.

And so, it doesn't have to be my personal experience that matters...even though I've had it.

I have cited and questioned your personal experience however not only because you don't have the service and choose to cite a few "stangers" posts as your "evidence"..but mainly because in addition to that..you choose to ignore all the above in making your accusation.

And that's what makes your suggestion something I consider to be without merit.

In any event, I'll be moving on from this debate.

~Rick
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citizensin @ 10th Jul 08:09AM:
Re: Yes, Comcast DOES mess with 3rd party VOIP

I started with Vonage in the summer of 2003 using Armstrong Cable. In 2006, I married and relocated switching to Comcast. I can honestly say that I have never experienced any problems
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ski93 @ 10th Jul 08:12AM:
comcast w/ voip

Its funny this issue of competition drives me crazy. Force someone aka cable or dsl providers who have spent billions of dollars to build and or upgrade their OWN...I repeat OWN infrastructure have to do anything for those who want to resell second and third rate phone service to customers. This reminds me of how AOL would bitch and moan they were losing customer base to cable or dsl so instead of spending money to compete and build their own network back bone they cry to the government saying its not fair we want to make money without upgrading or investing in our own network so make our competition give us unrestricted access to their huge pipeline. Then we don't have to do a thing accept wait for the money to roll in. Now we see the same thing with the satellite radio merger. The likes of John Kerry spewing nonsense about how now sat radio must spend their own money to also include the competition in the radio units...God forbid the competition spends their own money on their services...but nope...we live in and age of if you cant beatem, cry to the government and the government will force the issue or punish or restrict future movements of the provider. This is why services are so watered down now. Why spend the time and money to better your product if the competition just has to cry like little children and you have to give your services away for nothing. Not a huge fan of the over sized cable and or telco companies. Ive had my run'ins with these clowns but why in the hell have we sold ourselves to second best..We should be screaming for these companies who provide alternate services to step up or get the get the hell out of the way...
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CableTool @ 10th Jul 08:41AM:
Re: I wonder

Comcast never disrupted or degraded Voip services. Vonage or otherwise.
This simply states they never will in the future eiher.
--
CableTechs.org/"Horrible People with Integrity"
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CableTool @ 10th Jul 08:54AM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

said by ptrowski :

But again, have YOU ever used Vonage, Viatalk, Packet8 etc provider before?

I have never used VoIP but any home Ive been in that had a problem with Vonage or any VoIP provider was related directly to a service issue. A service issue that was repaired. As with any VoIP product, there is no error correcting capability. A virtually perfect connection web wise can mask errors that the modem itself corrects. voice packets cannot be "resent".
When something is wrong with your service from an RF standpoint VoIP is the FIRST thing affected.

Again, the article never stated Vonage was ever degraded. And it has never been degraded. Its simply a joint press release that VoIP calls, vonage or otherwise, will never be touched and are treated equally among web traffic on thier network.

Screw the Vonage forums.
"I have Comcast and Vonage and my calls suck! Comcast is screwing with my packets!!!!"

What you have here is the nations leading Cable internet provider most likley providing bandwidth for the majority of Vonages customers.
What that boils down to is the likelyhood of someone having a voice issue and being on Comcast is pretty great. But again, it all goes back to a regular old RF issue, nothing tricky going on.

If a tech goes to a home with a VoIP issue with another provider the same care is given to the customer. The same VoIP tests are run that they would run with their own VoIP customers to ensure call quality. MOS scores and all.

Happy trolling however!!
--
CableTechs.org/"Horrible People with Integrity"
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CableTool @ 10th Jul 08:57AM:
Re: Yes, Comcast DOES mess with 3rd party VOIP

said by cruzinmy64 :

Yes, Comcast DOES mess with 3rd party VOIP. I have a rock solid Comcast cable modem with 10mb down / 2mb+ upload and can't manage to make a single VOIP call without either delays, jitter, or the call just "dropping" after a few min.

What you have is a modem that is correcting any errors it can. Which means you have an issue that is only presenting itself through your VoIP service. VoIP is the first service affected if you have a cable related service issue.
Call quality cannot be corrected. Most everything else can which makes your service look flawless until you make a call.
"AVOID UNEDUCATED POSTERS!"
--
CableTechs.org/"Horrible People with Integrity"
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houghe9 @ 10th Jul 09:14AM:
..

said by ski93 :
Its funny this issue of competition drives me crazy. Force someone aka cable or dsl providers who have spent billions of dollars to build and or upgrade their OWN...I repeat OWN infrastructure have to do anything for those who want to resell second and third rate phone service to customers.

I think the only thing "being forced" here is quality of service. If a company advertises themselves as an internet service provider; enters into a contract to provide service, they should "be forced" to provide that service. If they provide the quality service they advertise, the issues with the "second and third rate phone companies" would not exist.
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ptrowski @ 10th Jul 09:44AM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

Screw the Vonage forums? Oh please. I could say screw the Comcast forums but I don't.

How many people try Vonage, can't get it to work, call Comcast or Time Warner, etc and say "well, it must be on Vonage's side". So they stop using VoIP and blame the provider.

The average joe looking in the big box store sees the Vonage box, buys it and brings it home. They try it, it doesn't work. They call Vonage who says call your ISP. They call their ISP and they say "everything is fine". They are not going to find out about random or burst loss, latency etc. They just want it to work.

My point is there were alot of posts that popped up about having issues with Vonage and Comcast especially around the time CDV was becoming more popular. It's not unreasonable to think giving Comcast's less than stellar track record of being honest about what they do with packets that they dabbled with "managing their network" and that affected VoIP.

You may not think so, nor will Comcast Rick ever think so. But there are plenty of posts on multiple forums that would say otherwise.

And Rick, we are all strangers on these boards.
--
"A religious war is like children fighting over who has the strongest imaginary friend."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org
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ptrowski @ 10th Jul 09:45AM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

Rick, there are posts even in this thread showing that people had issues with VoIP and Comcast, made a switch to another ISP and things worked better.

So they are wrong?
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ptrowski @ 10th Jul 10:01AM:
Interesting link....

»www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/th···f-course

Here is the print...

"Comcast: We Won't Block VoIP Traffic. (Not That We Ever Have, Of Course)
Sam Gustin is scratching his head at Comcast's announcement today that it has reached a "collaborative agreement" with voice-over-IP provider Vonage.

The companies said in a statement that the agreement is designed "to ensure that network management techniques are chosen that effectively balance the need to avoid network congestion with the need to ensure that over-the-top VoIP services like Vonage work well for consumers."

What's puzzling about the announcement is that Comcast, which offers a rival voice-over-IP offering, has long maintained that it doesn't block or degrade voice-over-IP traffic, despite being accused of doing so.

As the company itself notes, "This is the latest in a series of announcements related to Comcast's network management practices that demonstrate the company's commitment to ensure that its customers' ability to use any application or access any content they choose while avoiding network congestion situations that could affect the consumer experience."

Marvin Ammori, general counsel of Free Press, which filed the original complaint against Comcast, wasn't buying what the company was selling today.

"We are baffled as to why it was necessary for Vonage to strike a network management agreement with Comcast to guarantee that their services are not degraded or blocked," Ammori said in a statement. "Such anti-competitive, anti-consumer practices are already against the law. And beyond that, Comcast has been on the record as saying that they do nothing to deter their customers' use of VoIP."

If that's the case, why the need for today's announcement?"
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CableTool @ 10th Jul 10:54AM:
Re: This was a joint press release....

said by ptrowski :

Rick, there are posts even in this thread showing that people had issues with VoIP and Comcast, made a switch to another ISP and things worked better.

So they are wrong?

It means they had an issue with their CHSI connection that was cable related and obvioulsy would not present itself on a DSL connection.
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