Fourth Of July Open Thread - Have a fantastic holiday!
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Fourth Of July Open Thread
Have a fantastic holiday!
08:54AM Saturday Jul 04 2009 by Karl Bode
tags: BBR-News
It's July 4th weekend, so light your fireworks in the comment section below. Everyone here at Broadband Reports wishes you a fantastic holiday.

Related:
  1. Weekend Open Thread
  2. Weekend Open Thread
  3. Weekend Open Thread
  4. Weekend Open Thread
  5. Weekend Open Thread
  6. Weekend Open Thread
  7. Weekend Open Thread
  8. Weekend Open Thread
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Its a Secret @ 3rd Jul 06:28PM:
Woot!

Have a safe weekend; eat, drink, and remember why you're celebrating!
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GOLFnSUN @ 3rd Jul 06:30PM:
Re: Woot!

See some fireworks:

»www.stressbuster1.com/lady/liberty.html
reply
brianiscool @ 3rd Jul 06:34PM:
Hurray!

Happy 4th of July everyone. NO TAXES from Europe
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dadkins @ 3rd Jul 06:35PM:
Happy 4th Everyone!

^^^ Subject ^^^
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Mactron @ 3rd Jul 06:38PM:
Re: Happy 4th Everyone!

Have a Safe one too.. :D

4 Days off. YaY ! ;)
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milnoc @ 3rd Jul 06:49PM:
Interesting question.

Here's an interesting question. If the British had won, what would the United States have looked like today?

Canada maybe? :D
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Hpower @ 3rd Jul 06:59PM:
No internet access = sux

God I am dying here with no internet access at my new apartment I moved to. Install date for charter cable 16/1mbps is on July 10th. Ugh, so many days of being offline is horrible lol. No xbox, no email, no aim, no everything. Sux having to do stuff from work but it's alright till I get my connection setup.

For the weekend, all I want to do is sleep, eat, watch movies on my pc and repeat lol. Took a week off from the gym since I been busy all week with moving, organizing and cleaning my new apartment. That's a workout on it's own.

Happy 4th of July everyone! Drink responsibly and have fun.

--
The Internet is about to go down....it is actually.

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Matt @ 3rd Jul 07:04PM:
Have a Happy Fourth Everyone!

Tomorrow, it doesn't matter if you're Republican, Democrat, Independent, Asian, Russian, Chinese, Mexican, or Latino -- we're all just American.

I am going for my weekend long run at my favorite park, Guilford Battleground Park. The British handed our ass to us in that battle, but we destroyed over 25% of Lord Cornwallis' army, forcing him to abandon his campaign for the Carolinas and setting up his defeat and eventual surrender at Yorktown seven months later.

Running in that park and looking out across the battlefields from both the British and American perspective is surreal, yet oddly calming.
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dadkins @ 3rd Jul 07:04PM:
Re: No internet access = sux

Got Phone?
Get NetZero FREE - 10 hours of free internet.
reply
drew @ 3rd Jul 07:06PM:
Re: Have a Happy Fourth Everyone!

Yay Independence Day, boo running.
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Noah Vail @ 3rd Jul 07:27PM:
itsaworldoflaughteraworldoftearsitsaworldofhopeitsaworldoffe

it's a world of laughter, a world or tears its a world of hopes, its a world of fear theres so much that we share that its time we're aware its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small, small world. it's a world of laughter, a world or tears its a world of hopes, its a world of fear theres so much that we share that its time we're aware its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small, small world. it's a world of laughter, a world or tears its a world of hopes, its a world of fear theres so much that we share that its time we're aware its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small, small world.

My son and I went to Disney World this week. He and I had a birthday, so The Mouse gifted us free admission; complete with Personalized Birthday Button.

it's a world of laughter, a world or tears its a world of hopes, its a world of fear theres so much that we share that its time we're aware its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small, small world. it's a world of laughter, a world or tears its a world of hopes, its a world of fear theres so much that we share that its time we're aware its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small, small world. it's a world of laughter, a world or tears its a world of hopes, its a world of fear theres so much that we share that its time we're aware its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small, small world.

'Cast Members' bade us fond Birthday Wishes by name. All day long. Over and Over Again.
Toward the end of the day several guests seemed to forget who they were and began Happy Birthdaying us, as well.

it's a world of laughter, a world or tears its a world of hopes, its a world of fear theres so much that we share that its time we're aware its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all (I thought they got rid of the IaSW ride...please someone help me) its a small, small world. it's a world of laughter, a world or tears its a world of hopes, its a world of fear theres so much that we share that its time we're aware its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small, small world. it's a world of laughter, a world or tears its a world of hopes, its a world of fear theres so much that we share that its time we're aware its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small, small world.

It was a lot of fun for my son and I. I especially enjoyed the preview of Therapyland. Must have got in because of our birthday.
NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture.

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Phugg @ 3rd Jul 07:37PM:
Have a great weekend

Have a happy 4th y'all. DO NOT drive after even 1 drink. Myself my kids and honey will all be on the road SOBER. Don't hurt anyone please.
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VerdeDude @ 3rd Jul 07:45PM:
Happy 4th!

Have a Happy 4th of July everyone!

All my page Icons and pictures got loose!
Click for full size
The DSLReports.Com Icons are Celebrating!
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backfeed @ 3rd Jul 07:51PM:
Re: No internet access = sux

How are you posting this then??...I am confused
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backfeed @ 3rd Jul 07:54PM:
Re: Interesting question.

We probably would be speaking German..or Japanese
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capecoddah @ 3rd Jul 07:54PM:
WORK!!!

Busiest weekend of the season, full-tilt, crazy-go-nuts, closed roads, traffic from Hell, sold-out, full-house, and I'm having a blast! ALL my crew was ready (even the princess lifeguards), WiFi is working, the property looks great, all the guests are happy, the sun finally came out, and summer is in full swing! God I love it when a plan comes together!

I'm in/on my second office (roof) having a Killer Lobster Roll, a Coke and a smile checking out the guests, parking lot, street, courtyard and where to watch the fireworks from. "Donated" laptop (lost and found from last year we tried to return) is nice too.

I hope no police, fire or EMT stop by this weekend on business.

Be happy, safe and thoughtful this weekend.

"When in the course of human events..."
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Noah Vail @ 3rd Jul 08:33PM:
Re: No internet access = sux

said by backfeed :

How are you posting this then??...I am confused
Oh Geez. Do we have to explain EVERYTHING to you?

NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture.

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GOLFnSUN @ 3rd Jul 08:37PM:
Re: No internet access = sux

said by backfeed :

How are you posting this then??...I am confused
He said:
"Sux having to do stuff from work but it's alright till I get my connection setup."
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

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backfeed @ 3rd Jul 08:47PM:
Re: No internet access = sux

:(
OK...OK....MY bad!!!
Yup I missed that....
I read it to fast.. I will think of something to blame it on later..Right now I am going just chalk it up to not having my glasses on...
--
There are 10 types of people. Those who can read Binary and those who cannot.

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Smith6612 @ 3rd Jul 08:53PM:
Re: Happy 4th!

Yay for JavaScript!
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PCInTech @ 3rd Jul 09:14PM:
Never forget

On this date in History, in 1779, my beloved home town of New Haven, CT, was raided by the British. Drunken Redcoats pillaged, raped and burned their way toward the center of the City. The New Haven colonists fought bravely but were greatly outnumbered, and many of them died horrible deaths. When British General Tyron reached the center of town, he commanded his troops to STOP! He declared that New Haven was "too pretty to destroy". True story. (they got back in their ships and went further down the coast and burned Stamford to the ground, instead.)
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Gizy @ 3rd Jul 09:25PM:
Re: Have a Happy Fourth Everyone!

And when you look at those battlefields, remember those still sacrificing for our Independence Day Celebrations.

Say thank you to a vet, current or retired, or if you don't know one, adopt one.

»anysoldier.com/

--
Any Soldier
My Gallery

Duct tape is like "The Force." It has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together.

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dslwanter @ 3rd Jul 09:36PM:
Happy 4th all!

May God bless all of you and the entire U.S.A. Be safe all and don't drink & drive.
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Richard B @ 3rd Jul 09:49PM:
Happy Forth of July

"I am apt to believe that it will be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary festival," he supposedly said. "It ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.

"It ought to be solemnized with pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires, and illuminations, from one end of this continent to the other, from this time forward for evermore,"
attributed to John Addams after the adoption of the Decoration of Independence in July 1776.
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me1212 @ 3rd Jul 09:50PM:
.........

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdP1CQEboIo


God bless America!
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Maggs @ 3rd Jul 10:14PM:
Re: Never forget

said by PCInTech :

On this date in History, in 1779, my beloved home town of New Haven, CT, was raided by the British. Drunken Redcoats pillaged, raped and burned their way toward the center of the City.
Wow, Joe still holding a grudge 230 years later I see ;). We won, that's all that matters. Now fire up the Weber and grill some dead cow now will ya ;)
--
Hello, is anyone out there.

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Matt @ 3rd Jul 10:29PM:
Re: Have a Happy Fourth Everyone!

said by Gizy :

And when you look at those battlefields, remember those still sacrificing for our Independence Day Celebrations.

Say thank you to a vet, current or retired, or if you don't know one, adopt one.

»anysoldier.com/

Amen! My girlfriend is a Marine, so I thank one every day! (And my brother who is down was in the Navy.)
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Rogue Wolf @ 3rd Jul 11:07PM:
Re: No internet access = sux

My friend, I know how you feel! Had to deal with that twice over the last couple of years. Sort of lucked out this time, though- with this move, it turned out that the previous renter hadn't shut anything off. Went down to the office with a notarized copy of the lease and had the Internet service put in my name. No muss, no fuss!

I've found that getting a new, cheap game or two helps pass the time while waiting for a new install.
--
Hexadecimal humor really turns me 0FF.

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fatness @ 4th Jul 12:33AM:
typical midget wrestler drug murder hooker story

»www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp···omp.html

quote:
TWO midget wrestlers died after a drink-fuelled night with hookers.

The pair were found in a hotel room on Monday in Mexico City, not far from the famous Arena Mexico wrestling venue.

They were identified as brothers Alberto and Alejandro Jiménez, who were known in the ring as La Parkita and Espectrito Jr.

Reports say the wrestlers, both aged 35, picked up two prostitutes and took them to a hotel room but, hours later, the women left alone.

When a hotel worker went to clean the room they discovered the bodies of the wrestlers laying in the beds.

Autopsies are being carried out but investigators believe the grapplers overdosed after taking a dose of eye drops combined with alcohol.


You can't make this stuff up.
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thender @ 4th Jul 05:13AM:
I'm happy to have a day off.

There's nothing like a week of 4 hours of sleep a night to make a day of nothing feel awesome. :)
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sonicmerlin @ 4th Jul 05:56AM:
Cost of Rural Fiber + TV: $1500, dropping

Since this is technically an open thread... I thought I'd point out this interesting article from dslprime.com:

Hiawatha Broadband in Winona, Minnesota pays approximately $800 to pass a home, and another $750 to connect it, including one set-top box, according to an FTTH Council. The rural carrier costs are only slightly higher than Verizon, at $700 and 650 for similar. The home television hookup is several hundred dollars of each figure, so $1,000 - $1,300 is the right estimate for an efficient fiber installation in the U.S. today.

In other words, the cost of rolling out fiber to rural areas is vastly overstated by the incumbent telcos. What a surprise there. Also, if we apply this number to the total number of households in America, a government program rolling out fiber to say 95% of American households would cost somewhere between $100-$150 billion. Better internet infrastructure than a stupid and unnecessary war in Iraq.
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ronpin @ 4th Jul 06:02AM:
Re: Woot!



I want YOU to have healthcare!
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pnh102 @ 4th Jul 08:14AM:
Re: Never forget

REMEMBER PAOLI!
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KenTheCook @ 4th Jul 09:45AM:
Re: Woot!

Very Cool, Thanks!
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BF69 @ 4th Jul 09:55AM:
Re: Cost of Rural Fiber + TV: $1500, dropping

said by sonicmerlin :

Since this is technically an open thread... I thought I'd point out this interesting article from dslprime.com:

Hiawatha Broadband in Winona, Minnesota pays approximately $800 to pass a home, and another $750 to connect it, including one set-top box, according to an FTTH Council. The rural carrier costs are only slightly higher than Verizon, at $700 and 650 for similar. The home television hookup is several hundred dollars of each figure, so $1,000 - $1,300 is the right estimate for an efficient fiber installation in the U.S. today.
What is the average distance between homes. I'm sure there are some areas where you may only have a few houses per miles the cost would be somewhat higher. Still as you say the excuses ISPs come up with are that excuses. Even if you assume that a person getting both TV and internet and 80% of the monthly fee goes to maintenance and other costs, still any company rolling out fiber would make all their money back within 5 years.
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madden2k5 @ 4th Jul 10:33AM:
Cox Equipment picks great time to fail...

Well it just happens a piece of cox's equipment failed somewhere yesterday evening, and now i gotta wait till tomorrow between 3-5pm for a tech to come. Then once he sees the problem aint here, its no telling how long before they find the problem.

So atm no tv, and im surprised the modem is even running with such a low signal of 31db for SNR, which was 38 before problem, and my downstream power is now -9, it was +5 before yesterday. So all and all a shitty weekend for cable and all to screw up.
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GOLFnSUN @ 4th Jul 10:56AM:
Re: Woot!

said by ronpin :

I have & pay for healthcare. What it should say is "I want you to pay for others healthcare".
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Jeffrey @ 4th Jul 11:09AM:
Re: Interesting question.

said by backfeed :

We probably would be speaking German..or Japanese
Wouldn't hurt to learn either of them now, really. :)
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Jeffrey @ 4th Jul 11:10AM:
Re: Never forget

If that's true (and I'll assume it is since my knowledge of Revolutionary War America is rusty), I'd like to read it a bit about that. Any recommendations?
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GOLFnSUN @ 4th Jul 11:12AM:
Re: Cox Equipment picks great time to fail...

said by madden2k5 :

Well it just happens a piece of cox's equipment failed somewhere yesterday evening, and now i gotta wait till tomorrow between 3-5pm for a tech to come. Then once he sees the problem aint here, its no telling how long before they find the problem.

So atm no tv, and im surprised the modem is even running with such a low signal of 31db for SNR, which was 38 before problem, and my downstream power is now -9, it was +5 before yesterday. So all and all a shitty weekend for cable and all to screw up.
If you have neighbors that also called, they may fix it BEFORE your appointment time.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

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Jeffrey @ 4th Jul 11:13AM:
Re: typical midget wrestler drug murder hooker story

Eye drops and alcohol? That's a new one. I read this last night, and I just shook my head. You really can't make this stuff up.
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amigo_boy @ 4th Jul 11:27AM:
Healthcare and socialism?

said by GOLFnSUN :

I have & pay for healthcare. What it should say is "I want you to pay for others healthcare".
That's happening now, even without President Obama's proposed reform.

America's healthcare "market" is not a "free market" of willing buyers and sellers. The AMA is essentially given a monopoly to set quality standards -- enforceable through public law (and, ultimately the business end of a gun).

The downside: a "market" without lower-quality (and -priced) options for those who can afford only that, and would be willing to purchase what they can afford..

We often hear "America has the best health care system in the world, that's why foreigners travel here for treatment." That's a breath-taking non sequitur. When public law is used to create a market which wouldn't naturally result from "willing buyers and sellers," you can make it whatever you want.

But, that comes at someone's expense. You never get something for nothing. Having the "best healthcare system in the world" is a direct result of eliminating lessor choices which would exist in a true "market," and the disparity (and unpredictable market outcomes) which would exist in such a true "market." It's "the best healthcare system" if you can afford this socialized and artificial market. For everyone else, they get virtually nothing.

That is a form of wealth transfer. Creating a socialized market where due diligence to purchase goods of services is reduced at the expense of others.

The really perverse thing about this is

1) We say these socially-mandated quality standards (on an otherwise "free market") are a matter of "public safety." We're denying people healthcare that they can afford so they'll be safe? Going without treatment is better than buying at least something?

Of course, what we really mean is "public safety" at the aggregate (social) level. Even if some are actually less safe. That is a social, collective goal. Subject to questions about who's safety is improved. But, as soon as anyone raises that topic they're labeled a "socialist" who supports "wealth transfer" (as if wealth transfer isn't happening now!).

2) We use foreigners seeking treatment in the US to justify Americans denied even the choice of lessor-quality (and lessor-priced) goods and services?

Trust me, someone's paying for your health care today. It's just not as clear (to you) as removing $ from your wallet.

Mark
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madden2k5 @ 4th Jul 11:39AM:
Re: Cox Equipment picks great time to fail...

said by GOLFnSUN :

said by madden2k5 :

Well it just happens a piece of cox's equipment failed somewhere yesterday evening, and now i gotta wait till tomorrow between 3-5pm for a tech to come. Then once he sees the problem aint here, its no telling how long before they find the problem.

So atm no tv, and im surprised the modem is even running with such a low signal of 31db for SNR, which was 38 before problem, and my downstream power is now -9, it was +5 before yesterday. So all and all a shitty weekend for cable and all to screw up.
If you have neighbors that also called, they may fix it BEFORE your appointment time.
Well i dunno if they did or not, but my luck is my modem gunna drop today because the hotter it gets outside the weaker the signal gets, and with already bad signal because of failure somewhere.. I wont be surprised it drops soon. I mean hell there isnt enough signal to run the hdboxes, so im just playing the waiting game now.
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ronpin @ 4th Jul 12:16PM:
Re: Healthcare and socialism?

said by amigo_boy :

Trust me, someone's paying for your health care today. It's just not as clear (to you) as removing $ from your wallet.
...Yes -- we ARE ALREADY paying for poor folks healthcare -- and at the very highest possible costs -- with virtually no effort whatsoever for prevention -- under the absolute certainty that everyone -- especially poor people -- do get sick. Only "Ron Paul" and the Libertarians would "step-over" a dying street-person "for the public good". The rest of us swallow-hard and allow our taxes to subsidize various "hospital districts" around the country -- 'cause we know God loves everybody -- and allows us to help others as we would like to be helped -- if it was our child in need.

We are in fact a very decent society -- just not very smart! (like all the other industrialized nations).

Even Rush Limbaugh is paying for indigent healthcare! -- he's just too frick'n dumb to know he could save a bundle through a "medicare-like" option for needs-qualified patients -- to get preventative care (like cholesterol meds). "Stupid is as stupid does"
--
Remember the future.

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Chaldo @ 4th Jul 12:21PM:
Blow up the streets and F THE COPS!!!

the subject says it all
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ArchAngel21x @ 4th Jul 01:02PM:
2 Words

Holiday pay :D
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Fox McCloud @ 4th Jul 01:19PM:
Re: Healthcare and socialism?

said by ronpin :

Only "Ron Paul" and the Libertarians would "step-over" a dying street-person "for the public good". The rest of us swallow-hard and allow our taxes to subsidize various "hospital districts" around the country -- 'cause we know God loves everybody -- and allows us to help others as we would like to be helped -- if it was our child in need.

We are in fact a very decent society -- just not very smart! (like all the other industrialized nations).
What a gross distortion of what Ron Paul and libertarians, in general, stand for; only the staunchest objectivist would do something as you describe. Ron Paul has specifically described that non-profit organizations and churches would help provide healthcare for those who couldn't afford it, which is the way it used to be until public funding crowded them out (after all, why donate when you're forced into paying for it anyway?). Milton Friedman talked about how back in the 20's and 30's the poor and upper class could get excellent healthcare, but it was the middle-class who struggled with it, a bit.

It's one thing to say "Ugh, those libertarians; they believe in deregulation, low taxes, and are somehow anti-war", but to make a statement like you just did is horrendously inaccurate.
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Pv8man @ 4th Jul 01:29PM:
Re: Blow up the streets and F THE COPS!!!

Heh, I hear ya on that one.

I've got my Professional "B" Class fireworks .....HEhehehe

I've for 72 x 3 inch mortars balls, and 10 x 6 Inch mortars balls (Almost as big as your head)

but we've been handling professional fireworks for years, we know what we are doing and we apply all the necessary safety precautions.

but almost every single trailer in our trailer court is abandoned or taken away.

So we've got nothing but wide open spaces, about a football field.

We don't care about the cops, we light the sky on fire every 4th...since we were little kids..

It's an american tradition dammit !!!!

I'm sick of all these cops trying to confiscate everyone's fireworks because they don't wanna pay for em.
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amigo_boy @ 4th Jul 01:34PM:
Re: Healthcare and socialism?

said by ronpin :

We are in fact a very decent society -- just not very smart! (like all the other industrialized nations).
I don't know if I'd compare us to other industrialized nations. Less developed nations don't regulate health care quality like we do. You can see a doctor for $5-$10. Prescriptions are cheap.

Developed nations have accepted the social responsibility that comes with setting social standards on health care (to create higher quality than a market of "willing buyers and sellers" would produce). They make goods and services available to those who can't afford the artificially-created high priced "market" which allows no lessor choices.

That's what's funny (in a perverse way) about opponents to health care reform. They complain that you'll have to wait for services. People wait today! If you can't afford the artificially- (socially-) created market, you'll wait until your illness is bad enough to be seen by an emergency-room physician.

I liked (in a perverse way) Rs speaking to the camera about how "if you like the DMV or Post Office, you'll love health care reform." That's an apples/oranges comparison. There is a sizeable portion of the public who can't buy any service. For them, there's not even a line to wait in.

Rs don't talk about that. All they do is act like a precedent is being set if their own ox is gored.

However, I agree with Rs that health care reform will create problems for many people. I'm not looking forward to waiting for services that I can afford today. But, the Rs strategy seems to be to ignore how many people have it far worse than simply waiting. Maybe when the problem is *everyone's* problem we'll look for better solutions.

Personally, I'd like to see competing medical associations. The AMA providing top-shelf accreditation for those willing to pay top-shelf prices. A PMA (Public Medical Association) for those willing to accept lower quality goods and services at a discount. Giving the AMA a monopoly has been bad (unless you are among the few who can afford to pay for these monopolized goods and services).

Mark
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amigo_boy @ 4th Jul 01:42PM:
Re: Healthcare and socialism?

said by Fox McCloud :

Ron Paul has specifically described that non-profit organizations and churches would help provide healthcare for those who couldn't afford it, which is the way it used to be until public funding crowded them out
If you want to play the "way it used to be" game, we could go back to when health care was lightly regulated. Your neighbor could set a fractured arm, or deliver a baby if you wanted to save money on a doctor visit.

The root cause isn't "public funding." It's that we didn't want third-world health care conditions. To achieve that goal we gave the medical association (which became the medical establishment) control over its industry, to establish standards and use Public Law to enforce those standards "in the public interest."

It was the loss of those "free market" choices (for the social good of a rising standard of living) which led to increased calls for "public funding."

This is no different than other social evolution, such as public water, sewer, roads, etc. Society is always looking to improve standards -- and recognizing that a social responsibility goes with those improved (artificial, not "market-based" standards).

That's where Ron Paul breaks down. IMO, Ron Paul pseudo-libertarians are a fraud. They like to use the big-L Libertarian rhetoric to sound like their positions are "principled" (unlike everyone else). But, they quickly dodge all the disconnects in big-L rhetoric by explaining "I'm not a big-L Libertarian...."

The result is a mish-mash of incomprehensible positions based upon sound bites. Selectively focusing on things like how we should "return to a time before public funding" -- while ignoring what public funding was a response to. (I.e., they don't want to return to a time before public standards because, "hey! I'm not a Big-L Libertarian!!!!").

Mark
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Opticwonders @ 4th Jul 01:54PM:
WOOO!

WOOO! I always love the 4th of July :D
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jinjimbob @ 4th Jul 01:55PM:
Re: Hurray!

Thats right, the US can tax its self much better!
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ronpin @ 4th Jul 01:56PM:
Re: Healthcare and socialism?

said by Fox McCloud :

said by ronpin :

Only "Ron Paul" and the Libertarians would "step-over" a dying street-person "for the public good". The rest of us swallow-hard and allow our taxes to subsidize various "hospital districts" around the country -- 'cause we know God loves everybody -- and allows us to help others as we would like to be helped -- if it was our child in need.

We are in fact a very decent society -- just not very smart! (like all the other industrialized nations).
...Ron Paul has specifically described that non-profit organizations and churches would help provide healthcare for those who couldn't afford it, which is the way it used to be until public funding crowded them out (after all, why donate when you're forced into paying for it anyway?).
...you only proved my point!!! (...leave it up to God -- it's not my problem ("am I my brothers keeper?")

I was raised with no healthcare -- through no fault of my own -- living in an obvious "shack" right across the street from a large church! -- during the "good 'ol days" of racism, sexism and "manifest destiny" No -- libertarians are only worse than repugs because they attempt to rationalize their convenient, selfish inhumanity. At least Rush Limbaugh is too dumb to actually rationalize anything (demonize - yes)

If only selfish people were not inherently ignorant -- they'd be the very first to embrace expanding Medicare -- to save the money that now leaks-out between the cracks in our system. GM, Walmart and most other Fortune 500 companies now see what a competitive disadvantage we now suffer by foisting-off the healthcare of sentient beings to the randomness of the "business cycle". It's time to grow-up.
--
Remember the future.

reply
amigo_boy @ 4th Jul 02:04PM:
Re: Healthcare and socialism?

said by ronpin :

...you only proved my point!!! (...leave it up to God -- it's not my problem ("am I my brothers keeper?")
That gets back to my observation about Ron Paul pseudo-Libertarians. A Big-L Libertarian would say it's not government's job to coerce anyone to be someone else's keeper.

Ron Paul pseudo-Ls intimate suggest that principle, but won't go that far because, to be consistent we'd have to question why government sets social standards (and resulting market prices) high (so we don't have third-world medicine). They want to suggest Big L's "non-coercion principle," but at the same time distance themselves from what that really means because Big L's are largely irrelevant due to their unrealistic/unpopular principles.

That's what I don't like about he modern health-care debate. It's driven by ideologues who simply parrot polar positions rather than think about the issues for themselves. It's just slogans about "wealth transfer." Or, the other side not acknowleging that reform will truly create problems for many -- *but, that won't be a precedent since we create problems for many today*.

Mark
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neftv @ 4th Jul 02:20PM:
Happy Birthday to USA.

Happy Independence day United States.

I was just a parade this morning and they had the old cars parading. There was a very early Cadillac. Some one from the Crowd yelled out. That was when GM was king. Everyone clapped. It was so touching. It's back American can't be great anymore instead we have Republicrats! It's time to wake up America. Forget the beer, the couch and football for once in your life. Alright I better stop. Today is America's birthday. Have a safe one.
reply
Chaldo @ 4th Jul 02:52PM:
Re: Blow up the streets and F THE COPS!!!

Yea we get a lot of class C some class B stuff from some people weknow. We light them safely the cops always come we know most of them, but all this cops coming and ticketing who ever thinks its for YOUR safety, please go hit your head on the wall. ITS ALL FUCKING MONEY, MONEY TALK! I don't really care anymore, but the cops haven't showed up last year to no ones house around here maybe they wont this year.

By the way one of my favorite class b fireworks = Thunderking LOVE THEM!
reply
sonicmerlin @ 4th Jul 04:45PM:
Re: Healthcare and socialism?

Well-written amigo.
reply
sonicmerlin @ 4th Jul 04:46PM:
Re: Interesting question.

Seeing as how virtually every other country won their independence, even if the US hadn't won it's reasonable to surmise eventually it would have gained its independence. Most likely however it would have been a hollow victory, requiring decades before it could catch up to the rest of the modern world's economy and social status.
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milnoc @ 4th Jul 05:43PM:
Re: Interesting question.

Uh... Isn't that pretty much what's happening now? Your country still doesn't have a national health care plan, your banks are gobbling up all your cash reserves, your car companies are going bust for making cars twenty years out of style, people are losing their homes, you still rely on coal and foreign (i.e. Canadian) oil for your energy needs...

Your nation has some very serious problems on its hands.
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dib22 @ 4th Jul 06:52PM:
Re: Woot!

said by GOLFnSUN :

I have & pay for healthcare. What it should say is "I want you to pay for others healthcare".
let's hope you never get a condition that hurts your insurance companies profit margin.
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weeksben1 @ 4th Jul 08:08PM:
Re: Have a Happy Fourth Everyone!

The british may have handed us our ass @ that battle, but we ended up handing him (and the brits) their collective walking papers about 7 months later.
reply
TechSupport @ 4th Jul 08:44PM:
Re: Happy Birthday to USA.

Enjoy the holidays..
have a good and safe one and enjoy the drinks

cheers
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Combat Chuck @ 4th Jul 10:28PM:
Re: Woot!

said by dib22 :

let's hope you never get a condition that hurts your insurance companies profit margin.
Let's just hope should socialized medicine go through that you never get a condition that scores low on the government's cost benefit analysis. At least you can reason with the insurance company the government not so much.

It's funny you all cry think of poor grandma who can't afford to pay to have the brain tumor removed; meanwhile grandma has the most to lose should socialized medicine come to town since she doesn't feed the machine.
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sonicmerlin @ 4th Jul 10:47PM:
Re: Woot!

Grandma has the least to lose, and the most to gain. Socialized medicine would provide her guaranteed healthcare at little to no cost, except for the tiny % she pays in taxes from her miniscule income. Preventative medicine applied to a socialized system that benefits from such practices would increase the quality of her life significantly, while keeping her out of the hospital.
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sonicmerlin @ 4th Jul 10:48PM:
Re: Interesting question.

It's easy to point out economic issues during a recession. Usually though these have little impact on people's lives and overall the American standard of living is extremely high (except for healthcare).
reply
amigo_boy @ 4th Jul 10:50PM:
Re: Woot!

said by Combat Chuck :

It's funny you all cry think of poor grandma who can't afford to pay to have the brain tumor removed; meanwhile grandma has the most to lose should socialized medicine come to town since she doesn't feed the machine.
I agree and disagree. Health care is "socialized" now. It is public law which sets standards higher than a "free market" of willing buyers and sellers would produce. That comes at the expense of those who would be willing (and able) to pay for goods and services that are essentially illegal today.

That problem is just as bad as the problem you described. Either way there is a "cost/benefit" calculus applied. Today we (collectively) make a decision to eliminate lessor (and cheaper) goods and services "for the good of all" (which translates into "the good of those who can afford the result.").

Now it's just a political negotiation how we define "the good of all."

That's where I think Rs have completely missed the boat. They're right about all the negatives of a more equitably distributed health-care system. But, they ignore how our current system has inequitably placed the cost of high quality upon those who can't afford it.

Mark
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Kristopher @ 4th Jul 11:56PM:
Safe and Happy 4th!

Spent the day with family. Grandma's Birthday is today. A healthy and happy 82nd. She's still a crazy Irishwoman!

Hope everyone enjoyed the day. Gorgeous here in PA! :)
--
Play DSLr Mafia: »Pub Games

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KA3SGM @ 5th Jul 12:42AM:
Remember Paoli

I actually drove through Paoli the other day, and it looked fine to me.. :D

Just don't drive faster than 25mph, or the local police will write you up a nasty speeding ticket. :(
--
ROCK TIL' SUNSET

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Laughing Man @ 5th Jul 12:48AM:
Re: Blow up the streets and F THE COPS!!!

I lit off a few home-made acetylene bombs this year, felt the shockwave from those suckers.
reply
Madness @ 5th Jul 12:53AM:
This is Cute

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bmpFCwZbwM

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Chaldo @ 5th Jul 01:19AM:
Basicly ran a firework SHOW for the people around the place

Man we lit a show big one, cops came and I knew the cop hes like CHRIS!!! Bro ill call you off with all my cops and dispatch wont send no1 to you have fun man. I lit 3 and some 5" shells/motors or w/e they where crazy.

Atleast 4-5 cakes going off at the same time. Thunderkings, half sticks, a couple full sticks, some class B cakes. Show started at like 9 I and the group that was with me didn't stop till about 12 30 am haha.

HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY!!!
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FastiBook @ 5th Jul 02:47AM:
Happy birthday USA!

Saw the fireworks on the hudson river, great trip, great show.

Thought a lot about how we messed up the country since WW1, investing in policies that have now come to bite us on the a**. How people died because people in power lied & still walk free. Thought about my town, its role in the revolutionary war, thought about my family's involvement in getting food to the continental army in NJ.

Thought about presidents & their train trips, why we don't have more & better train service, especially 24 hours a day.

Thought about how unlikely it was for this country to come into being, & how if we're not full of hope, compassion, and keep apathy at bay things could easily fall apart.

- A
--
LETS GO METS!

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KrK @ 5th Jul 03:06AM:
OMG Steve McNair shot dead

Steve McNair, former NFL QB (Retired last year) has been found shot to death in his condo.... details are sketchy atm, but it looks so far like a murder suicide --- a 20 year-old woman who is a waitress at Dave and Busters and has apparently been seeing McNair was also found dead at the scene with a single gunshot to the head...... Steve was sitting on the couch and was shot repeatedly according to initial reports.

Damn....

So, is this the third of the three?
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

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norton @ 5th Jul 08:01AM:
Re: No internet access = sux

your beer glasses?
hehe
reply
norton @ 5th Jul 08:03AM:
Re: Happy 4th Everyone!

3 days off and a job!!!
reply
Wizeguy @ 5th Jul 08:16AM:
Re: Blow up the streets and F THE COPS!!!

Ah so your the guy that blew out my windows? Sending you the bill.....JK
reply
ebubman @ 5th Jul 08:25AM:
happy 4th

happy 4th of july guys! pls---don't drink & drive. this rarely has a good outcome...
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GOLFnSUN @ 5th Jul 09:37AM:
iPhone 3GS battery life stinks - says Apple

»www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-i···06.story
Even the company suggests on its website that users disable some of the phone's most vaunted features, including the faster 3G network itself, to keep it from shutting down during the day.

Buyers are finding that the device has trouble making it through a workday without a rest stop at the electrical outlet. The new model is smaller and sleeker, however, and Apple may have sacrificed some battery capacity in favor of a lighter phone, analysts said.

"The screen is actually the biggest battery suck in the device," said wireless analyst Charles Golvin of Forrester Research Inc. "The fact that people are using their 3G iPhones to do a lot more stuff . . . means that the screen is on more."
Style trumps function again. They could have made the phone a little thicker and put in a bigger battery, but it wouldn't have been as stylish.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

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Voyager2K2 @ 5th Jul 10:16AM:
Re: Remember Paoli

said by KA3SGM :

I actually drove through Paoli the other day, and it looked fine to me.. :D

Just don't drive faster than 25mph, or the local police will write you up a nasty speeding ticket. :(
Amen Bro'.
Tredyffrin police are a pain!
Nuthin' better to do I suppose.
Paoli looks fine every time I go through it as well.
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gigahurtz @ 5th Jul 10:30AM:
Re: OMG Steve McNair shot dead

said by KrK :

Steve McNair, former NFL QB (Retired last year) has been found shot to death in his condo.... details are sketchy atm, but it looks so far like a murder suicide --- a 20 year-old woman who is a waitress at Dave and Busters and has apparently been seeing McNair was also found dead at the scene with a single gunshot to the head...... Steve was sitting on the couch and was shot repeatedly according to initial reports.

Damn....

So, is this the third of the three?
Very sad. I can't believe this happened. He seemed like a very good guy, but I can't understand what he was doing with a 20 year old.
reply
gigahurtz @ 5th Jul 10:59AM:
Re: iPhone 3GS battery life stinks - says Apple

said by GOLFnSUN :

»www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-i···06.story
Even the company suggests on its website that users disable some of the phone's most vaunted features, including the faster 3G network itself, to keep it from shutting down during the day.

Buyers are finding that the device has trouble making it through a workday without a rest stop at the electrical outlet. The new model is smaller and sleeker, however, and Apple may have sacrificed some battery capacity in favor of a lighter phone, analysts said.

"The screen is actually the biggest battery suck in the device," said wireless analyst Charles Golvin of Forrester Research Inc. "The fact that people are using their 3G iPhones to do a lot more stuff . . . means that the screen is on more."
Style trumps function again. They could have made the phone a little thicker and put in a bigger battery, but it wouldn't have been as stylish.
I thought the 3G S was supposed to have better battery life? I know it depends on a lot of factors but I am sure glad I didn't buy one. I am happy with my 3G (would be happier if AT&T would deploy 3G in my area).
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stevennb @ 5th Jul 11:44AM:
Re: OMG Steve McNair shot dead

Getting laid?
reply
Shamayim @ 5th Jul 12:39PM:
Re: Healthcare and socialism?

said by ronpin :

Even Rush Limbaugh . . . he's just too frick'n dumb . . .
Yeah, Rush Limbaugh is dumb like B. Hussein Obama is an American patriot.
--
Who is Jesus? and Why it matters (to YOU).

reply
ncbill @ 5th Jul 01:13PM:
Re: OMG Steve McNair shot dead

Jealous wife or Boy/Girlfriend discovers them and bam bam bam.
reply
gigahurtz @ 5th Jul 01:17PM:
Re: OMG Steve McNair shot dead

said by ncbill :

Jealous wife or Boy/Girlfriend discovers them and bam bam bam.
The girl did it. Multiple shots to McNair and one shot to the head from her.
reply
gigahurtz @ 5th Jul 01:18PM:
Re: OMG Steve McNair shot dead

said by stevennb :

Getting laid?
Guess so. Sad that a guy that was such a "role model" may go out like this.
reply
FastiBook @ 5th Jul 01:40PM:
Re: iPhone 3GS battery life stinks - says Apple

Smaller and sleeker? It's the same exact form factor as the 3G. I smell BS.

- A
--
LETS GO METS!

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GOLFnSUN @ 5th Jul 01:56PM:
Re: iPhone 3GS battery life stinks - says Apple

said by FastiBook :

Smaller and sleeker? It's the same exact form factor as the 3G. I smell BS.

- A
The battery in 3GS is 15% smaller than the 1st iPhone. The extra space in the case was taken up by more chips(compass, voice control, etc).
»www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-i···06.story
Repair company IFixit.com, which specializes in Apple products, and other online gadget surgeons dismantled the 3GS on the day it was released and found that the phone's battery was about 15% smaller than the one in the original iPhone.

--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

reply
FastiBook @ 5th Jul 01:58PM:
Re: iPhone 3GS battery life stinks - says Apple

And apple doesn't say the battery life sucks, it says for maximum battery life turn off stuff you're not using, like 3G. I have it off when i'm not needing faster internet away from wifi etc. Common sense really. Location services, push data, 3G, and high screen brightness can drain the battery quickly.

I usually leave home around 8:20 am, and i usually get home around 10 pm, and i've never had an issue with battery life, i have more than 30% battery. I use GPS to see where i am on the train, about an hour's worth of use right there using location services and usually wifi, since wifi augments the GPS, i also have speedometer, which uses GPS functionality, to see how fast my train is going. I text and surf the web all day, play games on the phone, look at MTA and NJT alerts, make calls.

I think this is a smear tactic that sprint is paying people to do, there was one other thing i saw recently that irked me a great deal, being an iPhone 3G user and seeing lies about the device i use every day.

The Pre can't function outside the usa. It isn't sold anywhere else, it gets worse battery time, is a clunky weakly designed product hiding inside a large cloud of hype lies and nonsense. If i had the funds i'd take palm and sprint to court over this. Boasting about real features and facts is one thing, but riding on a campaign of lies and smear tactics is another thing. Reminds me of comcast trying to tell people it also have fiber to the home...

- A
--
LETS GO METS!

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MyDogHsFleas @ 5th Jul 02:07PM:
A hypothetical

Consider this hypothetical scenario and how you would react.

It's early 2008. George W. Bush's father, George H. W. Bush, had been convicted of murder last year after several bodies were found on his property shot with his weapons. The bodies were Democratic political operatives who'd been missing for years. George W. Bush has just pardoned his father and he's released from prison.

George W. Bush has decided, apparently, that rather than stepping down in January 2009 as the Constitution requires, he would like to remain as President. This requires an amendment to the Constitution to repeal the 22nd Amendment.

Normally, this requires COngress to propose an amendment by a 2/3ds majority, followed by ratification by 3/4 of the states. Or, the states can call for a Constitutional Convention.

But, GWB knows this would take too long even if he could make it happen. So, he decides that the Constitution allows him, as leader of the people, to call a special election to revise the 22nd amendment by simple ballot.

When his attorney general disagrees, GWB fires him and appoints someone who will rubber-stamp the special vote.

The Supreme Court and both houses of Congress declare the special election illegal, and Congress refuses to fund it. Despite this, GWB uses his friendship with Mr. Putin in Russia to prevail on him to print ballots for the election and ship them to the USA.

He then orders the National Guard to staff and supervise the vote. When the head of the National Guard objects, he too is fired and replaced.

The leaders of the military are ordered by Congress to stop this action and to arrest GWB if he persists in his stance. GWB does not back down and he is arrested. The vice president (next in order of succession) is installed as interim president to serve out GWB's term.

OK -- what do you think about this?

Here's the twist: if you substitute "Mel Zelaya" for GW Bush, and "Honduras" for the United States, the above story is an accurate analogy of what happened in the Honduras leading to Zelaya's arrest and deportation.

And yet, President Obama sides with Zelaya, calls this a "military coup", and wants him reinstated! How would he have reacted had Mr. Bush undertaken this course in 2008?
reply
FastiBook @ 5th Jul 02:12PM:
Re: A hypothetical

Removal from power before term ends is also wrong.

- A
--
LETS GO METS!

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GOLFnSUN @ 5th Jul 02:19PM:
Re: iPhone 3GS battery life stinks - says Apple

said by FastiBook :

The Pre can't function outside the usa.
Deals are in place already for Canada UK, Spain & Latin America thru Telefonica. Sales in Canada start any day to Bell Mobility.
»www.phonesreview.co.uk/2009/07/0···-stocks/
»www.unwiredview.com/2009/03/12/t···america/
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

reply
felony @ 5th Jul 02:35PM:
Re: iPhone 3GS battery life stinks - says Apple

said by FastiBook :

I use GPS to see where i am on the train, about an hour's worth of use right there using location services and usually wifi, since wifi augments the GPS, i also have speedometer, which uses GPS functionality, to see how fast my train is going.
Yeah, the important stuff.. :uhh:
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anon @ 5th Jul 02:47PM:
FTTH, etc

One thing I don't understand is why it is so expensive to install in someone's home. I know part of the cost is having a fiber cable run by someone's home. Why does it need to be more expensive then what it has always been to install cable TV. Come on companies! Get the costs down! $1500/customer! Thats ridiculous.
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amigo_boy @ 5th Jul 02:56PM:
Re: A hypothetical

said by MyDogHsFleas :

And yet, President Obama sides with Zelaya, calls this a "military coup", and wants him reinstated! How would he have reacted had Mr. Bush undertaken this course in 2008?
I agree with you.

The news stories' repeating the word "coup" without any context lead most people to believe this was an entirely one-sided injustice. I don't know if President Obama is just pandering to public opinion (generated by our entertainment news), or if he politically supports the ousted leader. Given Obama's other [changing] positions, I suspect it's the former.

It's interesting how we've avoided such a constitutional crisis. Even though the constitution makes many things clear, there is still plenty of gray area concerning separation of power. It wouldn't be hard to have a crisis like Honduras.

I think the difference has been that US politics tends to govern toward the middle. A recognition of the legitimacy of the other (losing) side. In Latin America there seems to be a prevailing attitude that whoever wins is entitled to do whatever they want with no regard to the opposition. No balance or moderation for the sake of the losing side.

I think we've drifted more toward that mode. President Clinton's first term was very much like that. It led to the "Republican Revolution." An opposite polar/excess swing.

I felt like President Bush exhibited the same undesirable (IMO) behavior when he won by a minority popular vote but said "I have political capital, and I intend to spend it. This is a mandate for my agenda." (loose quotes.). His dismissive, swaggering attitude conveyed a lack of recognition that a large percentage of the population didn't support his positions.

People criticize Obama for changing positions, pandering, etc. Like it's "unprincipled." But, IMO, someone who believes that backing down or modifying their positions is a sign of weakness is exactly the kind of person who could lead us into a Constitutional crisis like many Latin American countries regularly experience. It's a sign of an inability to recognize other (majority) positions and accommodate them.

Mark
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vinnie97 @ 5th Jul 05:17PM:
Re: A hypothetical

The centralization of control, the obvious media filter (that has only just recently started to waver in the wake of Helen Thomas' expose') and the reckless spending don't come across as ideological concessions from where I'm sitting...nor does the healthcare reform bill (penalizing anyone who doesn't buy in at $1000, I hope they're building new prisons in preparation. Massachusetts only gives a similar program a 26% approval rating: »www.rasmussenreports.com/public_···_success) or the cap and trade (resulting in skyrocketing energy prices...in other words, a business tax that will be passed on to the middle class making Obama a liar).
reply
Austinloop @ 5th Jul 05:50PM:
Re: FTTH, etc

Just a few thoughts as to why fiber may be more expensive.

1) Fiber must be spliced with, usually, a fusion machine which costs a lot more than a coax crimper.

2) The optical signal must be changed to electrical for use by equipment in the house, not a huge expense, but necessary.
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amigo_boy @ 5th Jul 06:50PM:
Re: A hypothetical

said by vinnie97 :

... the reckless spending don't come across as ideological concessions from where I'm sitting
Spending was *way* up under President Bush, even when the economy was roaring.

See: »www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009···hic.html

The full article: »www.nytimes.com/2009/06/10/busin···tml?_r=1

said by vinnie97 :

...nor does the healthcare reform bill (penalizing anyone who doesn't buy in at $1000, I hope they're building new prisons in preparation.
This is a perfect example of what I dislike about the Conservative position. We already penalize people who can't afford the artificial market (artificially high-quality, and -priced health care).

I agree that reform will penalize a new group of people. But, I don't see Conservatives addressing the problem that already exists. Their position seems to be that it's ok to penalize some people. But, if it's the wrong people (people who can afford our artificial, socially-created market) then it's bad?

BTW: Try obtaining bargain health care from someone with only 7 years of education. You'll see that prisons are involved in that proposition too.

said by vinnie97 :

Massachusetts only gives a similar program a 26% approval rating:
It would be interesting to know how the existing healthcare system rates. 26% approval compared to what?

Mark
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MyDogHsFleas @ 5th Jul 08:29PM:
Re: A hypothetical

said by FastiBook :

Removal from power before term ends is also wrong.

- A
We call it impeachment, it's not "wrong", it's another check and balance.

As far as I can tell from the sketchy media reports, the Honduran legislature did basically the same thing, although they don't seem to have the actual "impeachment" mechanism. They voted that the President had overstepped his authority. The Supreme Court agreed. The President went ahead anyway. What were they supposed to do?

In this country we've never had a President defy the Supreme Court and Congress and refuse to step down when their term limit arrived or they were defeated. If we did, I suppose the military would have to intervene and force the President out of the White House. What else are we supposed to do?
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backfeed @ 5th Jul 09:44PM:
Re: No internet access = sux

said by norton :

your beer glasses?
hehe
Well...it is a holiday weekend!! :D
--
There are 10 types of people. Those who can read Binary and those who cannot.

reply
FastiBook @ 5th Jul 10:33PM:
Re: iPhone 3GS battery life stinks - says Apple

Seeing that i'm a transit advocate & people count on me to light fires under arses when stuff isn't as it should be, yea it is important to know why the train i've picked to ride is going slow and where & for how long. I often also use these features with stopwatch and calculator to do distance & speed and other calculations. Anyways, my point was to exemplify the excellent battery life. My old phone died on me more than once when i was out & about & it has a much larger battery.

- A
--
LETS GO METS!

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KrK @ 6th Jul 01:41AM:
Re: Healthcare and socialism?

said by Shamayim :

said by ronpin :

Even Rush Limbaugh . . . he's just too frick'n dumb . . .
Yeah, Rush Limbaugh is dumb like B. Hussein Obama is an American patriot.
Yes to both.

I do know one thing. Healthcare *must* be addressed because if nothing is done, it is one of the planks that America is going to walk right off the end of.

The spiralling costs of healthcare ALONE could sink the entire country. Something MUST change.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

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FastiBook @ 6th Jul 02:08AM:
Re: FTTH, etc

Also, it's not just line, its curbside (or pole mounted) boxes, i believe it's 1 per 2 houses in this area, putting conduit in without digging a new basement in the yard (specialized equipment), and all the labor for all of that, plus permits licenses, insurance, fuel for trucks, the ONT isn't cheap either. This is costing vz billions, it's basically a new system/rebuild of the existing copper.

And while this is going on they still have a whole other copper network to worry about.

Aye, it may be later than promised, but better late & deploying than never.

- A
--
LETS GO METS!

reply
anon @ 6th Jul 07:08AM:
Re: Healthcare and socialism?

said by amigo_boy :

said by ronpin :

We are in fact a very decent society -- just not very smart! (like all the other industrialized nations).
I don't know if I'd compare us to other industrialized nations. Less developed nations don't regulate health care quality like we do. You can see a doctor for $5-$10. Prescriptions are cheap.

Developed nations have accepted the social responsibility that comes with setting social standards on health care (to create higher quality than a market of "willing buyers and sellers" would produce). They make goods and services available to those who can't afford the artificially-created high priced "market" which allows no lessor choices.

That's what's funny (in a perverse way) about opponents to health care reform. They complain that you'll have to wait for services. People wait today! If you can't afford the artificially- (socially-) created market, you'll wait until your illness is bad enough to be seen by an emergency-room physician.

I liked (in a perverse way) Rs speaking to the camera about how "if you like the DMV or Post Office, you'll love health care reform." That's an apples/oranges comparison. There is a sizeable portion of the public who can't buy any service. For them, there's not even a line to wait in.

Rs don't talk about that. All they do is act like a precedent is being set if their own ox is gored.

However, I agree with Rs that health care reform will create problems for many people. I'm not looking forward to waiting for services that I can afford today. But, the Rs strategy seems to be to ignore how many people have it far worse than simply waiting. Maybe when the problem is *everyone's* problem we'll look for better solutions.

Personally, I'd like to see competing medical associations. The AMA providing top-shelf accreditation for those willing to pay top-shelf prices. A PMA (Public Medical Association) for those willing to accept lower quality goods and services at a discount. Giving the AMA a monopoly has been bad (unless you are among the few who can afford to pay for these monopolized goods and services).

Mark
i dont know what world you live in.

the US has the WORST overall health care system IN THE WORLD for its OWN PEOPLE.
try being elderly on ssi paying insurance premiums and prescriptions, or state funded ssi and state Medicaid with subsidized so called insurance.

be a "typical" AMERICAN with wow "insurance" and be the lucky one to be struck with a major illness lets try a major heart condition that amounts to $500,000 in medical expense, and now the hospital is demanding "UPFRONT" payment before they cover any procedure of what your "INSURANCE" WILL NOT COVER!!!! yea your now REFINANCING YOUR HOUSE TO THE TUNE OF $100k+. you think your covered because you have insurance? THINK AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the ones who can "afford" insurance are paying into a for profit agency seeking for profit treatment/s on top of for profit drugs these are the huge huge flaws in the U.S medical system.

health care in America is VERY BROKEN AND YES IT NEEDS TO BE FIXED.

MEXICO has 100% coverage on any working person and everyone is treated EQUALLY. as far as health care goes.
and this coverage is PAID FOR BY THE EMPLOYERS of the working people
reply
SLD @ 6th Jul 07:17AM:
Re: Blow up the streets and F THE COPS!!!

LOL...fireworks, trailers, Indiana...
thanks for the chuckle.
reply
anon @ 6th Jul 07:23AM:
Re: WOOO!

why?
reply
pnh102 @ 6th Jul 07:26AM:
Re: Remember Paoli

said by KA3SGM :

I actually drove through Paoli the other day, and it looked fine to me.. :D
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Paoli

»www.ushistory.org/paoli/info/faq.htm

Gen. Wayne had our troops exact revenge on the British forces at the battle of Stony Point in New York 3 years later. The tour guide at Gen. Wayne's estate in Malvern can tell the story way better than I can, and if you have some free time, I strongly suggest you take a visit to the place... before the rest of his descendants sell it off. :mad:
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!

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pnh102 @ 6th Jul 09:36AM:
Re: Healthcare and socialism?

said by amigo_boy :

Personally, I'd like to see competing medical associations. The AMA providing top-shelf accreditation for those willing to pay top-shelf prices. A PMA (Public Medical Association) for those willing to accept lower quality goods and services at a discount.
That's a pretty interesting idea. I think that provided that some basic standards were observed, you could make a distinction based on professional accreditation. Unfortunately, history tells us that the field of medicine does need some regulation, you only have to look at the stories of quackery and patent medicines from the early 20th century for proof.

There are other ways to achieve what you suggest. One could be that patients could agree to a limited tort against a doctor for malpractice... such a tactic has reduced car insurance costs in jurisdictions where it has been tried.

Based on my own experiences at the business end of the medical industry, I've found that treatments for most medical problems are indeed cut and dried, and you don't need the latest and greatest medical technology to treat most diseases. Allowing patients to see a doctor who has a slightly less impressive set of credentials, but who also has a low to nil rate of malpractice problems (and even the current system doesn't fully address that) would indeed reduce costs and allow more people access to adequate healthcare at a reasonable cost.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!

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amigo_boy @ 6th Jul 11:43AM:
Re: Healthcare and socialism?

said by dumbamericans :

the US has the WORST overall health care system IN THE WORLD for its OWN PEOPLE.
try being elderly on ssi paying insurance premiums and prescriptions, or state funded ssi and state Medicaid with subsidized so called insurance.
I agree with you. However, I also agree with Rs who say "America's health care system is the best in the world." The problem is that both sides don't recognize the other side's valid perspective.

If you have a lot of money (or a good job with good insurance), you can get the latest MRI, etc., which isn't available to the average person in other countries (or, they have to wait, even for older MRI, etc.).

But, if you don't have money, you can't get much of anything. You're prohibited by law from buying inferior goods and services in the interest of "public safety" (a collective, socialist argument).

IMO, that's the problem with the healthcare debate. Both sides arguing without considering the legitimacy of the other side.

I understand people who fear that *more equitable* distribution of *already socialized* healthcare will eliminate the leading-edge choices they have available to them (and which aren't available in other countries).

But, they tend not to recognize that the artificially-created market of high-quality goods and services is responsible for the availability of leading-edge choices. And that this "market" came at the expense of those denied the choice of goods and services *they can afford.*

Mark
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amigo_boy @ 6th Jul 01:03PM:
Re: Healthcare and socialism?

said by pnh102 :

I think that provided that some basic standards were observed, you could make a distinction based on professional accreditation.
I agree. The root of the healthcare debate is "market choice." Those opposed to [greater] socialization of the market complain that it will eliminate their ability to buy goods and services within the "market" as it exists today.

Those who support [greater] socialization object to today's "market" because it doesn't produce goods and services which meet their needs (defined partially by what they can pay for).

The debate quickly breaks down into one side complaining that the other wants "something for free." Or, the other side isn't "compassionate."

They both miss the point. Today's beneficiaries of "the world's best healthcare system" are getting "something for free." They can choose goods and services within a "market" whose quality has been artificially raised by society. Much more predictable "market outcomes" than would exist if more variation existed (in quality). Less responsibility to exercise due diligence when checking credentials. (It's a very efficient "market" for those who can afford it. This efficiency, and higher quality came at the expense of those denied other market choices.).

There's nothing magic about 8 years of education. Why not 9? Or, 12? The AMA set the education level based upon a pragmatic balancing of cost/benefit.

We could have 40-year medical degrees -- and only a dozen practicing doctors in the country! Those who could afford to see these dozen doctors would say we have the best health care in the world. :)

So, why not have 7-year degrees? Or 6?

Same thing with pharmacists (no offense to "Jeffery"). I see these guys answering the phone, making change at the cash register, counting pills. Anyone can do that. We're told they're necessary to research drug interactions and perform patient consultations. But, that could be done remotely. We could have regional pharmacist service centers to leverage an economy of scale. Kiosks in each pharmacy where the patient could consult with a pharmacist.

The point being: we made an arbitrary pragmatic cost/benefit choice concerning pharmacists. If their services are so essential, then why not have 2 or 3 in each pharmacy? We decided one was enough. We could easily decide that using shared, remote services is good enough too.

The "market" can't decide these things because the doctors and pharmacists exclusively control their professions. They have no incentive/pressure to meet market needs this way.

I agree with you that we can't have a Libertarian, anything-goes market. Nobody wants a "market" where you can buy medicine manufactured in your neighbor's bathtub.

But, we're pretty far from that problem. I think we could have multiple accrediting agencies (multiple medical associations) and let the market decide.

I think this would be a perfect Republican position. Ds tend to focus on protecting people from "market" injustice. Rs don't want market injustice either (if it affects them). But, they're more inclined to look for ways to establish a "framework" for the market to operate within, and correct itself. Multiple accrediting associations would do that.

If the AMA's high standards cost more than a majority are willing to pay for, they're likely to lower their standards to gain more marketshare. (There would have to be some emphasis on compliance regulation. We wouldn't want to justify non-compliance to an association's standards because someone was willing to pay for it.).

Also, I don't know about individually waiving malpractice in return for lower prices. There is a long-standing legal doctrine that you can't sign away your rights. For example, if I enter a carnival, and the back of the ticket says "you accept all responsibility for injury," this doesn't eliminate the carnival's responsibility to take "reasonable" steps to prevent injury. The definition of "reasonable" is what ends up in the hands of a jury.

We've established a high expectation for "reasonable" because we've set artificially high medical standards through public law. Maybe this definition of "reasonable" would change if we had multiple accreditation associations (with discernible quality expectations). If you chose the top-shelf AMA, you might expect a multi-million settlement due to the AMA's depiction of itself. If you chose the commoner's medical association, you'd bear some responsibility for different outcomes. "Reasonable" would be defined by the standards expected by that accrediting association.

Mark
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GOLFnSUN @ 6th Jul 01:31PM:
Re: iPhone 3GS battery life stinks - says Apple

said by FastiBook :

The Pre can't function outside the usa. It isn't sold anywhere else, it gets worse battery time, is a clunky weakly designed product hiding inside a large cloud of hype lies and nonsense. If i had the funds i'd take palm and sprint to court over this. Boasting about real features and facts is one thing, but riding on a campaign of lies and smear tactics is another thing. Reminds me of comcast trying to tell people it also have fiber to the home...

- A
And for a more even handed comparison of the 2 devices not colored by Apple fanboyism:
»tech.yahoo.com/news/infoworld/20···/81691_1
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

reply
pnh102 @ 6th Jul 04:10PM:
Re: Healthcare and socialism?

The system you describe for pharmacies already exists in a way. Most mail-order pharmacies (similar to the remote ones you described) charge significantly less than traditional in-store pharmacies.

From the experience of myself, my family and most people I know, the quality of the service from the mail order pharmacy is comparable to that of a traditional pharmacy but you trade timeliness in getting your product for savings in money.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!

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amigo_boy @ 7th Jul 06:14PM:
Re: Healthcare and socialism?

said by pnh102 :

The system you describe for pharmacies already exists in a way.
That probably demonstrates the hypothetical system to an extent. It illustrates the economies of scale that can be had by placing expensive (highly-educated) pharmacists over more transactions (so they have less time to make change, answer telephone inquiries whether an order is ready, etc.).

But, that's the nature of e-retail. The problem is that there seems to be a law requiring every pharmacy to be overseen by a pharmacist. I don't think it's possible for CVS to have a dozen pharmacists handling 4 dozen stores remotely. Approving prescriptions. Providing consultations via kiosks.

There's probably a state pharmacy board made up of pharmacists who recommend to the legislature how pharmacies should be governed. That's good as far as it goes. I wouldn't want plumbers regulating pharmacies. But, there's obvious problems with a professional group having essentially a monopoly (through public law) on their profession. They won't be inclined to look for ways to make their profession more efficient if it means 3 in 4 losing their jobs.

Everything in the world comes down to that simple calculus. Who's ox is being gored. Going back to the modern healthcare debate. Those who can afford our artificially-created "market" are upset because their ox will be gored. But, they're ok with goring the ox of those who can't afford our system, *and are denied lessor choices they can afford*.

It's human nature.

Mark
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FastiBook @ 7th Jul 09:34PM:
Re: iPhone 3GS battery life stinks - says Apple

I'm not a fanboy, i want a phone that lasts through the day that isn't a piece of junk. I'm now on my second phone model, my first phone met my needs till i got the iPhone, so please don't imply that i somehow substitute logic with RDF.

- A
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LETS GO METS!

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FastiBook @ 7th Jul 09:39PM:
Re: iPhone 3GS battery life stinks - says Apple

Also, you don't go back to the home screen, you go back to the app menu page where your app is listed. I don't see even-handed, i see a bias towards the pre, but even so they can't argue that it's better than the iphone. I do research, not drink kool-aid.

- A
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LETS GO METS!

reply

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