IPSL: 40Mbps Over Copper - Cheaper to deploy than VDSL?
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IPSL: 40Mbps Over Copper
Cheaper to deploy than VDSL?
(old news - 02:11PM Tuesday Jan 29 2008)
tags: dsl · business · alternatives · bandwidth · networking
Rim Semiconductor Company is the latest company attempting to milk copper, and says their new Internet Protocol Subscriber Line (IPSL) specification is able to deliver 40Mbps of bandwidth over 5,500 feet of copper phone line. "Our technical team will continue to push the boundaries of data transmission across copper wire because 1.4 billion existing copper-based end users require it," insists the company.
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The company's draft Release 1.0 of the Internet Protocol Subscriber Line' specification calls for a semiconductor to drive data at fiber-like speeds over the existing copper telephone lines. In line with the draft specification, Rim Semi's Cupria' transport processor is now able to drive data traffic at 40 megabits per second (Mpbs) 5,500 feet (1.67km) on 26AWG (0.40mm) telephone wire. Existing technologies are able to drive data 15 mbps at this distance on this wire type.
The company's website insists that IPSL will cost half as much to deploy as VDSL, and is ideal for IPTV -- though they're still only offering 26Mbps at 6,000 feet over IPSL according to their product documentation (pdf). Rim has been testing their IPSL solution at Monroe Telephone in Monroe, Oregon (100 miles southwest of Portland).

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gatorkram @ 29th Jan 01:39PM:
Nice news

It's great to see all this news about higher speeds over copper.

The thing that sucks of course, is if, like myself, you are stuck in a non-competitive area, where it doesn't really matter what speeds they could be offering.
--
Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240
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myokitis @ 29th Jan 01:44PM:
Additional Plant Req'd

The attached links seem to indicate that RTs will be req'd for this, so it will take a significant effort to deploy this in the wild. This might be appealing to someone like Quest, who has no other next-gen plant improvements planned, and maybe some smaller ILECs. However, I don't see the bigger ILECs being able to use this.

Does anyone know if this is supposed to work over single pairs, or is bonding necessary?
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Gilitar @ 29th Jan 01:52PM:
Impressive for copper, but....

Just wait until companies start researching how to push fiber to new limits via new standards. Verizon is doing the right thing by deploying FTTH. In the future Verizon will profit while the Empire will be forced to continue to build out yet again.
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jinjimbob @ 29th Jan 02:00PM:
Qwest must about these reports

Qwest must about these reports, as it doesn't matter what speed you can get from the DSLAM if they don't have more than a couple of T1s to them.
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anon @ 29th Jan 02:09PM:
Re: Impressive for copper, but....

Verizon isn't doing squat to deliver broadband in my area. I've been waiting for DSL since 1997! As far as Verizons future,They'll go bankrupt before I get any broadband offerings.

Verizon is nothing more than a lame chicken shit phone company that can't ever service their existing infrastructure.
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jmn1207 @ 29th Jan 02:02PM:
Re: Impressive for copper, but....

said by Gilitar :

Just wait until companies start researching how to push fiber to new limits via new standards. Verizon is doing the right thing by deploying FTTH. In the future Verizon will profit while the Empire will be forced to continue to build out yet again.
Start? They already have and do research as it has been around for quite some time and used extensively. It's only recently been made available directly to the homes. If we had the patience and wisdom to spend more money on a completely wireless solution, we would not have to rely on any cable for transmission. But we are years away from this level of advanced technology. Someday.
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shashinka @ 29th Jan 02:03PM:
Re: Nice news

I would be glad to have something beside charter that will run over 700k down. I am too far out for anything faster. Maybe wimax will come (I can see a tower from my house) and leave in a good populated afluent area. FIOS will come though.. FIOS will come... only a town away.
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majortom1029 @ 29th Jan 02:13PM:
Re: Impressive for copper, but....

wait what made ma bell the people to root for? ITs obvious that eventuaslly they will be back to their own practices. Cable will switch to all fiber when its cheaper to do so .
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hayabusa3303 @ 29th Jan 02:14PM:
Re: Impressive for copper, but....

said by Ream0 :

Verizon isn't doing squat to deliver broadband in my area. I've been waiting for DSL since 1997! As far as Verizons future,They'll go bankrupt before I get any broadband offerings.

Verizon is nothing more than a lame chicken shit phone company that can't ever service their existing infrastructure.
verzion is doing better than ex bellsouth AT&t now.
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Guspaz @ 29th Jan 02:30PM:
Not that big an improvement

This is nice, but it's not quite as big an improvement as they state, as they're understating the capabilities of existing technologies. ADSL2+ should do about 19mbit at 6000 feet, and their tech supposedly does 26mbit.

That's an improvement, yes, but they're claiming "existing technologies" do 15mbit at 5500 feet, when it's closer to 20mbit with ADSL2+ in reality.
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Guspaz @ 29th Jan 02:31PM:
Re: Additional Plant Req'd

If Bell can sprinkle ADSL2+ remote DSLAMs everywhere, why not?
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digitalfreak @ 29th Jan 02:33PM:
Is AT&T an investor?

The company's draft Release 1.0 of the Internet Protocol Subscriber Line' specification calls for a semiconductor to drive data at fiber-like speeds over the existing copper telephone lines.
ROFLMAO! Fiber-like speeds? Fiber can do those speeds on a BAD day.
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anon @ 29th Jan 02:33PM:
Cool but is it spectrally compatible with DSLs

I don't believe this speed reflects a real world deployment since it is not standardized and not spectrally compatible with DSLs. If this technology is not spectrally compatible with T1.417 you can forget about it being deployed by any Telcos and/or co-locators. Maybe for intrabuilding networks but you know what happend to Cisco's LRE.... :o
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bogey780 @ 29th Jan 02:50PM:
Re: Additional Plant Req'd

Everything needs RTs. It's the reason why Mesa cabinets have been in huge demand for a decade or so.

This will probably never fly for the telcos as they've already made their decision and the incremental increase may not justify it.
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bogey780 @ 29th Jan 02:53PM:
Re: Impressive for copper, but....

Oh really now? Considering Bellsouth pushed more fiber out than Verizon did (they just stopped before the house) and had more remote solutions and DSL availability than just about anyone else...what makes you say that?
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RadioDoc @ 29th Jan 02:54PM:
Re: Not that big an improvement

Pretty sure VDSL2 can blow the doors off of 26 megabits at that distance, too.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.
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tmc8080 @ 29th Jan 03:39PM:
peddle elsewhere

Go peddle these too little too late dsl solutions elsewhere.. maybe go back in time to 1996 where you might be a new technology hit.
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PolarBear @ 29th Jan 03:56PM:
Re: Qwest must about these reports

Qwest must [what] about these reports?

As Lewis Black once said, "verbs eluded him."
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PolarBear @ 29th Jan 03:58PM:
Re: peddle elsewhere

Hey, it's the new ISDN!
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romulusnr @ 29th Jan 04:19PM:
where's my copper spool?

Maybe, just maybe, if I actually string a wire from my nearest CO to my house, and pull it nice and taut with a winch, I might get just under 5.5KF.

Nope. About 15KF too far, still. Thanks, though.
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anon @ 29th Jan 04:40PM:
Right On!

There are plenty of places where fiber ain't gonna happen. Any technology that can really the push the envelope on the existing copper plant is welcome.

The real question is economic - whether the telcos will seize the opportunity, if there is enough opportunity, and sell the bandwidth at a price agreeable to consumers.

So far, with DSL, they've been fairly competitive, but I think that's mostly thanks to the cable-internet bankruptcies (writing off the $50B investment) and the line-sharing requirements that forced them to resell. With those off the table, I doubt telco will be motivated to price 40mbps for less than $100/month.
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hayabusa3303 @ 29th Jan 05:22PM:
Re: Impressive for copper, but....

said by bogey780 :

Oh really now? Considering Bellsouth pushed more fiber out than Verizon did (they just stopped before the house) and had more remote solutions and DSL availability than just about anyone else...what makes you say that?
got links to prove it?
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bogey780 @ 29th Jan 05:34PM:
Re: Impressive for copper, but....

Bellsouth had over a million customers within a few hundred feet of fiber (FTTC) and a huge remote deployment schedule that put fiber within 3 miles of the bulk of their customers. They weren't shy about deploying the stuff. Only when Verizon did FiOS did they actually go beyond Bellsouth.
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Davebo_ @ 29th Jan 06:57PM:
BFD

Wow - high speeds - who cares?

Why dangle these high speeds in front of us, then cap us from using the connection. I just have to laugh at these stories...
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anon @ 29th Jan 07:42PM:
Might be worth evaluating...

Providers might want to evaluate this new flavor of DSL, especially if it is IP native and removes ATM from the picture, thereby eliminating the cell tax.
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dvd536 @ 29th Jan 09:57PM:
Upload!

How about addressing upload? 896kbps is sooooo 1996!
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DaneJasper @ 30th Jan 01:10AM:
Re: Not that big an improvement

We've just gotten competitive ADSL2+ test loops up. Thread here:

»First real world ADSL2+ test loop up

-Dane
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Kearnstd @ 30th Jan 02:24AM:
Re: Nice news

even in a competitive area, 5500 feet means this is a null devlopment imo. ive seen spools of wire with more then 5500 feet.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
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Guspaz @ 30th Jan 04:08AM:
Re: Not that big an improvement

Bell Canada rolled out ADSL2+ service to the general public a while ago, offering 7/1 and 16/1 tiers. Unfortunately, wholesalers (as the CRTC (our version of the FCC) requires them to share the DSLAMs) are not yet permitted to use ADSL2+ profiles, only g.dmt.

We're hopeful that the larger wholesalers will be able to offer ADSL2+ services some time this year. Providers that colocate their own DSLAMs in Bell's COs already are able to offer ADSL2+ services in very limited areas, but the only company with decent coverage has an incredibly bad reputation/service quality.
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patcat88 @ 30th Jan 05:59AM:
Re: Additional Plant Req'd

Also remember CLECs dont do RTs. So the only hope of this ever being installed anywhere is the ILEC, and if they haven't done ADSL2 by now, they sure wont do this.
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patcat88 @ 30th Jan 06:01AM:
Re: Impressive for copper, but....

Did they ever offer speeds over 1.5mbit over that fiber hahahahaha!!!!! They never used any of that fiber for higher speeds over the lowest tier ADSL (1.5). Atleast they future proofed. But now ATT will tear out all that fiber and put in copper for Uverse.
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patcat88 @ 30th Jan 06:06AM:
Re: Cool but is it spectrally compatible with DSLs

Yep, bigger question is, will the ILEC even allow a CLEC to install it, presuming the CLEC will want to (Covad is the exception for CLEC who upgrades past ILEC tech). If this is approved by the ILEC, will residential ever see this? or will this be some fractional T3 deliver system, with high install costs since there is no mass production discount?
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patcat88 @ 30th Jan 06:08AM:
Re: Might be worth evaluating...

So how do you propose backhauling it from the CO to an ISP?
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Pashune @ 30th Jan 01:42PM:
Hmm.

Good, now give me speeds above 3 mbit on 26 ga, 15.7 kft copper. :D
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anon @ 30th Jan 02:28PM:
45 Megs over copper

Hatteras Networks offers an ethernet over copper solution that allows you to mux 8 pairs of copper and get 45 megs. An ISP with a presences in cleveland, miami, chicago, boston, and pittsburg has been using hatteras technology to provide customers solutions with real bandwidth.

»www.hatterasnetworks.com/
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jimbo48 @ 30th Jan 10:46PM:
Re: Impressive for copper, but....

Got that right. They (Verizon) say my address doesn't exist and I live in the Bay Area 35 miles from SF and 37 miles from San Jose. I can't get bette rthan 3.0/384 over copper because the Telcos are milking the dsl markewt big time and won't spend a nickel on infrastructure upggrades. Funny that COVAD/ELNK could find my address!!
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jimbo48 @ 30th Jan 10:55PM:
Re: BFD

AMEN- all this "BS talk " about these fantastic speeds is nothing but hot air if the infrastructure isn't there. They can crow all they want about this new protocol or that new deployment. It doesn't work on the infrastructure in place and the TELCO's aren't going to spend the money to build the infrastructure because they're getting premium dollars for crap service and delivery as it is it for far too many geographies. The consumer is clamoring for real 21st century performance/delivery and those who own the infrastructure aren't listening. Why spend all that money when you are getting the big bucks up front for Y2K products
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anon @ 1st Feb 08:27AM:
Re: Additional Plant Req'd

They do not bond. This specification is single pair. Ot is significant when AT&Ts u-verse is only offered to 3000ft.
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anon @ 1st Feb 08:28AM:
Re: Impressive for copper, but....

It will be years before Verizon or anyone else pushes fiber to the masses. There current 18 billion$ push will only reach a percentage of their customers.
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anon @ 1st Feb 08:33AM:
Re: 45 Megs over copper

That's 8 pairs! V. 1 pr. What will 8 pairs form your CO to your house or business cost you?
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