Product Spotlight: Canadian Broadband - Cogeco Vs. Shaw - High Speed Internet in the Great White NorthHigh Speed Internet in the Great White North
(old news - 03:02PM Monday Nov 12 2007)
tags: prices · competition · hardware · bandwidth · cable · stats · bundles · consumers · caps
Welcome to the Product Spotlight -- a continuing series of articles highlighting individual products commonly used by our members.
In The Spotlight: Canadian Cable Broadband - Cogeco Vs. Shaw
Previously:
• Verizon FiOS Spotlight
• HughesNet Satellite Spotlight
• Optimum Online Spotlight
• Comcast HSI Spotlight
• Clearwire Wireless Internet Spotlight
• EV-DO Showdown - Sprint Vs. Verizon
See also: US Broadband Price Comparisons
So far in the Product Spotlight series, we've looked at several High Speed Internet providers and options from around the United States. In this edition we will take a peek at a couple of High Speed Internet services available to our neighbors to the North, comparing Canadian cable providers Cogeco and Shaw.
Shaw Communications Inc. is a diversified Canadian communications company whose core business is providing broadband cable television, High-Speed Internet, Digital Phone, telecommunications services (through Shaw Business Solutions) and satellite direct-to-home services (through Star Choice Communications Inc.).
Shaw is the leading residential broadband service provider in Western Canada, with service available in SK, MB, ON, AB, and BC according to our company info page. Shaw provides service to approximately 2.1 million cable television customers and more than one million Internet customers.
According to their site, Shaw Communications offers a total of four speed tiers:
• High Speed Lite - (Up to) 256 Kbps download and 128 Kbps upload with a 10 GB per month combined download and upload data transfer limit -- at $22/month when bundled with any other Shaw service, or $29/month stand alone. Currently, Shaw is offering this tier to customers who have not been a Shaw Internet customer within the past 60 days and sign up for Shaw High-Speed Internet service before November 30, 2007 free for 30 days and then $19.95/month for six months (modem rental included).
• High Speed Internet - (Up to) 5 Mbps download and 512 Kbps upload with a 60 GB per month combined download and upload data transfer limit -- at $32/month when bundled with any other Shaw service, or $40.95/month stand alone. Shaw is offering this tier to new customers who have not been a Shaw Internet customer within the past 60 days and sign up for Shaw High-Speed Internet service before November 30, 2007 free for the first 30 days and $29.95/month for the next 6 months, plus customers will receive a Shaw High-Speed modem.
• Xtreme-I - (Up to) 10 Mbps download and 1 Mbps upload with a 100 GB per month combined download and upload data transfer limit at $42/month bundled with another Shaw service, or $50.95/month stand alone. Shaw is offering this tier to new customers who have not been a Shaw Internet customer within the past 60 days and sign up for Shaw High-Speed Internet service before November 30, 2007 free for the first 30 days and $39.95/month for the next 6 months, plus customers will receive a Shaw High-Speed modem.
• Nitro - (Up to) 25 Mbps download and 1 Mbps upload with a 150 GB per month combined download and upload data transfer limit at $93/month when bundled with another Shaw service and a purchased modem, or $101.95 stand alone plus a $5/month modem rental fee. According to the website, there appears to be no deals as with the previously mentioned tiers at this time.
* Please note all prices are in Canadian Dollars (CAD). If you want to see the prices in U.S. Dollars, you can convert the money values here.
It should be noted that the last two speed tiers (Xtreme-I and Nitro) are not yet available in all areas. Shaw's website specifies which markets can get the Xtreme-I and Nitro tiers. Double check with Shaw for additional availability specifics.
All packages offer several free services, including security; webmail; spam filtering; photo sharing; video mail; and Shaw Music, which includes '40 channels of non-stop commercial free hits'. Shaw also offers bundle packages (check bundles and pricing here) and three types of business class services.
Shaw will provide you with a modem, or you may purchase your own. If you have an older modem, Shaw will give you an upgrade. This is recommended, as doing so may fix some speed issues. The Motorola SurfBoard 5102 seems to be a highly recommended modem for the service.
According to reviews left by Shaw customers, installation is usually quick, painless, and professional. Time from order to live varies from as little as one day to as many as fifteen days (in one case much longer, but this was due to upgrades to a building). The average time seems to be about 4 - 5 days.
As with most ISPs, customer service and tech support can be a luck of the draw, hit or miss experience at times. Here are a couple remarks demonstrating both ends of the spectrum:
The most obvious part of Shaw's offerings that may stand out to U.S. High Speed Internet customers are the transfer limits. Surprisingly, these are mentioned comparatively few times by reviewers of Shaw's Internet service. Shaw is not the only Canadian ISP that has transfer limits. In fact, several other Canadian ISP's do, including Rogers, VideoTron, and the other ISP featured in this article -- Cogeco.
There may be several reasons why he data transfer limits are not mentioned as much as one might think in reviews. For one thing, since one knows what your limits are, obviously one would be careful not to go over the limit for the service tier they have chosen.
Others find that their choice of service level fits their download/upload requirements:
Still others find Shaw to be somewhat lax in their enforcement of the limits:
Shaw, according to our FAQ, does limit bandwidth and traffic shape using Ellacoya technology to manipulate speeds of bit torrent and other p2p applications. The company has done so since around 2004.
Note Shaw's language when it comes to bandwidth abuse in its AUP (taken from this BBR Shaw FAQ entry):
Not surprisingly, the practice has garnered quite a bit of attention and controversy -- not to mention complaints by customers. The main target of the practice seems to be to limit the bandwidth used by BitTorrent and similar P2P apps. It has been noted that one can sometimes overcome the bandwidth throttling by enabling encryption on their BT clients.
A rather scathing yet telling review, found here, tells the story of what Shaw's sometime unreliability and traffic shaping can do to ones service, especially in a business setting:
Cogeco Cable provides about 2,437,000 revenue-generating units (basic, digital, Internet and telephony service customers) to 2,317,520 homes passed by its cable network in Ontario and Quebec (plus Portugal), having expanded through numerous acquisitions of other cable system operators. In addition to basic cable, Cogeco Cable offers digital cable, broadband Internet access, video on demand, pay-per-view services, and audio programming. The company also offers digital phone services.
It is the second largest cable system operator in both Ontario and Québec, (respectively behind Rogers & Videotron), and the fourth largest in Canada. Starting in 2006, Cogeco Cable began the process of overhauling their Ontario & Quebec-based Hybrid fiber-coaxial physical plant networks to expand the total amount of bandwidth available. The ability to offer expanded 2-way bi-directional services such as High Definition digital cable, High-Speed Internet and VoIP, and to improve network reliability is the driving force behind this upgrade.
Cogeco Inc. offers three speed tiers for the Quebec and Ontario service areas. Though the speeds are the same, the names and prices of the packages differ in the respective areas.
Ontario Packages and Pricing*:
• High Speed Internet Lite - (Up to) 640 Kbps download and 150 Kbps upload with a 10 GB combined monthly data transfer limit at $27.95 a month with both the Digital Bundle and the Analog Value Pack or $29.95 a month stand alone. All three packages prices include modem. Access to Security Services costs an extra $2 a month with this tier. Currently, Cogeco is offering a promotional price of $24.95/month for 12 months on their website.
• High Speed Internet Standard - (Up to) 10 Mbps download and 640 Kbps upload with a 60 GB combined monthly data transfer limit at $42.95/month with either Digital Bundle or Analog Value Pack or $47.95 stand alone. Modem is included with all three packages. Currently, Cogeco is offering a promotional price of $39.95/month for 12 months on their website.
• High Speed Internet Pro - (Up to) 16 Mbps download and 1 Mbps upload with a 100 GB combined monthly data transfer limit at $64.95/month with Digital Bundle; $66.95/month with the Analog Value Pack; and $69.95/month stand alone. Modem is included with all three packages. There appears to be no promotional pricing on the Cogeco website for this tier at this time.
Quebec Packages and Pricing*:
• Mini - (Up to) 640 Kbps download and 150 Kbps upload with a 10 GB combined monthly data transfer limit with a 10 GB combined monthly data transfer limit at $24.95 a month with any Cable TV or Digital Phone package or $29.95 stand alone. There is a $2/month charge for access to Security Services with this tier. Modem is included in the price. Currently, Cogeco is offering a promotional price of $19.95/month for 12 months on their website.
• Standard - (Up to) 10 Mbps download and 640 Kbps upload with a 60 GB combined monthly data transfer limit at $39.95 a month with any Cable TV or Digital Phone package or $44.95 stand alone. Modem is included in the price. Currently, Cogeco is offering a promotional price of $36.95/month for 12 months on their website.
• Pro - (Up to) 16 Mbps download and 1 Mbps upload with a 100 GB combined monthly data transfer limit at $64.95 a month with any Cable TV or Digital Phone package or $69.95 stand alone. Modem is included in the price. There appears to be no promotional pricing on the Cogeco website for this tier at this time.
Cogeco also offers bundle packages (Ontario, Quebec) and several business class services (Ontario, Quebec).
* All prices are in Canadian Dollars (CAD). If you want to see the prices in U.S. Dollars, you can convert the money values here.
It is worth noting that according to a post in our Cogeco Forum, prices may be increasing as of November 16th.
According to reviews left by Cogeco customers, installation is usually quick and painless. Time from order to live varies from as little as one day to as many as 30 days. The average time seems to be about 7 days.
You can check out which modems Cogeco offers in this thread from our Cogeco forum.
As with most ISP's, Cogeco's tech and customer service is pretty much luck of the draw, hit or miss. According to reviews, they aren't any better -- or any worse -- than most other ISP's.
This review gives the good and bad points of Cogeco's service from the view of a 10 year customer:
Though there are of course some issues common to cable Internet such as overloaded nodes, many reviews compliment Cogeco's service on its reliability:
Up until a couple months ago, most customers seem to have beeen relatively satisfied with their service. Of course Cogeco's AUP had made it clear that the service does have data caps, and if you go over them you could have your service terminated:
The policy seems to have been rather softly enforced until, apparently in September, Cogeco decided to take a hardline on enforcing the data caps on each package. Many Cogeco users suddenly found themselves receiving warning emails from the provider about going over their data limits or just having their service outright suspended. This new policy has caused quite an uproar within the Cogeco customer base. A large thread discussing the sudden enforcement can be found here in our Cogeco forum, and is well worth the read. Another interesting discussion on the cap enforcement policy from our Cogeco Forum can be read here.
The sudden harsh enforcement has caused many frustrated formally satisfied customers to cancel service, if possible. Many of these users have gone with DSL provider Teksavvy, who is most mentioned in our Cogeco Forum and our Cogeco customer reviews as the best option if available in the area.
Some reactions to the new hardline policy from reviews left on this site and our Cogeco forum:
Perhaps the most pertinent comments on the situation (taken from several responses to questions in this thread) comes from BBR member Krispy, a Cogeco employee:
Out of the current number of 299 reviews left on Broadbandreports.com by Shaw customers there are 172 positive reviews and 61 negative reviews, with 66 reviews classified as neutral. According to our stats, this results in a 72% satisfaction rating over the past 6 months garnering a BBR Silver Star Award.
Although American high speed Internet customers may not be familiar with having data transfer caps (at least visible ones) as part of their service agreements, this does not seem to be a huge sticking point with Shaw customers. Shaw also seems not to take a hardline in enforcing the transfer caps as indicated by some reviewers admitting they go over (sometimes well over) the stated cap for their service tier.
The prices and speeds for Shaw's 4 packages compare favorably to most U.S. ISP prices, and provide a fair number of choices for your needs... provided the Xtreme-I and Nitro tiers are available in your area. If they are not yet available in your area, the Lite and High Speed Internet tiers don't provide much of a choice and aren't a great value for the price, caps, and traffic shaping.
While there are the usual knocks against customer service and tech support, the main complaints seem to be Shaw's traffic shaping and, more so, what seems to be pretty widespread network congestion and overloaded nodes. A number of reviews mention not coming close to advertised speeds on a regular basis, and not just during peak usage hours. Noticeably flaky network reliability and somewhat harsh traffic shaping are the real prices you pay for use of Shaw's service.
Cogeco currently has 186 positive reviews and 40 negative reviews out of 268 total reviews, leaving 42 neutral reviews. Broadbandreports.com records a 73% satisfaction rating over the past 6 months, which, like Shaw, results in a BBR Silver Star Award.
The provider offers 3 tiers of service with the same speeds but different prices for its markets in Ontario and Quebec with the Quebec market prices being slightly higher than the Ontario market according to the Cogeco website. However, the 3 tiers provide a decent enough choice for the needs of Cogeco's customers. Customer service and tech support are as with most other providers -- luck of the draw.
Many reviews do view Cogeco's network reliability in favorable light. Like Shaw, Cogeco also does traffic shape. However, Cogeco's recent and sudden decision to take a hard line and strictly enforce its data caps, suspending and terminating customer's service (with little or no warning) has been badly received by many Cogeco customers. Many are migrating to other providers to avoid being cut off for a slight offense. Cogeco's new hardline stance on caps makes it a hard sell to customers who want to use their bandwidth to its full potential.
Which provider, Shaw Communications or Cogeco, Inc., gives the best bang for your Canadian buck? This is actually a pretty close one to call. The pros and cons of each service are about even. Let's look at each providers packages side-by-side (all prices are in Canadian Dollars; you can convert the prices to U.S. Dollars here):
Shaw 
Cogeco - Quebec (Left) Ontario (Right)
• Shaw's High Speed Lite gives you only 256Kbps down 128Kbps up with a 10 GB limit at $22 or $29.95 (depending on bundle or stand alone) vs. Cogeco's Lite (Ontario) or Mini (Quebec) with 640Kbps down and 150Kbps up with also a 10 GB limit at $24.95 (Ontario) - $27.95 (Quebec) or $29.95 (both). Although Cogeco gives you slightly better speeds, with the prices of the packages and 10 GB caps neither providers Lite service tier is worth having unless you literally only surf the web, check email, and very occasionally download something.
• Shaw's High Speed Internet gives you 5Mbps down and 512Kbps up with a 60GB cap at $32 (bundled) or $40.95 (stand alone) vs. Cogeco's High Speed internet Standard, which offers 10Mbps down and 640Kbps up with 60 GB cap at $42.95 (bundled) or $47.95 (stand alone) in the Ontario service area and $39.95 (bundled) or $44.95 (stand alone) in the Quebec service area. Cogeco's Standard tier offering clearly beats Shaw's offer in speed, although the 60GB cap Cogeco puts on the tier is a bit of a drawback in regard to the speeds offered. Still, Cogeco's Standard tier is worth the few extra dollars when compared to Shaw -- especially if you live in a Shaw area where the providers next two tiers, Xtreme-I and Nitro, are not available.
• If you live in and area where Shaw offers Xreme-I, this tier offers 10Mbps down and 1Mbps up with a 100GB cap at $42.00 (bundled) or $50.95 (stand alone). Cogeco's HSI Pro tier offers 16Mbps down and 1Mbps up with a 100GB cap at $64.95 (Digital Bundle), $66.95 (Analog Bundle), or $69.95 (Stand alone) in the Ontario service area; and $64.95 (CATV or Digital bundle) or $69.95 (stand alone) in the Quebec service area. While Cogeco has the better speeds, this is offset by the identical caps for the speeds offered and the price difference. As a result, Shaw's Xtreme-I would be the better deal for the money.
Shaw goes one further than Cogeco in its offerings with the Nitro package. Nitro gives you 25Mbps down and 1Mbps up with a 150GB cap at $93.00 (bundled) or $101.95 (stand alone). The speeds are nice to have (if Nitro is available in your area, of course), but the package is on the more expensive side and a higher cap would make the package a better deal considering the speeds.
On the surface, when it comes to the tiers made available by each provider the pros and cons of the various packages offered don't provide for a clear cut better deal when compared against each other and results in a draw in this respect. It's when you dig deeper into the services that you find the little differences that gives one a slight edge over the other in comparison:
• Customer service and Tech Support are no better or worse for both ISP's than any other provider's.
• Though both providers service suffers from the common cable Internet problem of network congestion, Cogeco seems to have the edge when it comes to network reliability. Shaw seems to have more problems with network congestion and overloaded nodes, resulting in more cases of significantly dropped speeds and higher latency during prime usage hours when compared to Cogeco.
• Both ISP's practice traffic shaping and bandwidth throttling when it comes to BitTorrent and other P2P applications. While both do so publicly, there seems to be more complaints about the practice in Shaw reviews than in Cogeco reviews. This doesn't necessarily mean that Shaw is worse than Cogeco in this respect, as there are ways around the practice such as encryption. The higher number of complaints about traffic shaping and throttling by Shaw customers could be the result of the different handling of the next practice in this list -- data transfer caps.
• Both ISP's, as with several other of the major Canadian ISP's, have mothly data transfer limits. While nobody likes data caps, the caps by themselves do not seem to be a huge sticking point with either Shaw or Cogeco customers, most likely because, unlike American ISP's, the caps are clearly denoted by both providers. Shaw and Cogeco customers know exactly how much they are allowed according to the package they purchase, and so are careful to stay close to the monthly allowance. Both ISP's provide a way to track usage so customers know where they stand in monthly usage against their respective packages cap.
However, it is the difference in enforcement of the data caps by Shaw and Cogeco that is in fact the deal breaker in an otherwise very close comparison. While Shaw has a soft enforcement policy on its caps, Cogeco, as noted previously in the discussion of its service, has suddenly and unexpectedly taken a hardline stance in enforcing its monthly data transfer caps. While reactions to and opinions of the new policy differ, there is no question the new enforcement policy has been extremely poorly implemented by Cogeco. Customers received little or no notice of Cogeco's new stance and many customers suddenly found themsleves without service without warning. Why Cogeco suddenly decided to heavily enforce its caps is anyone's guess, but a good insight is found in this review:
It is not because of the fact that Cogeco is strictly enforcing their data caps that gives Shaw the edge in this comparison. It is because of the fact that Cogeco badly muffed the implementation of the new enforcement policy, and because of the resulting lack of higher cap alternative packages to offset the now strictly enforced caps that Shaw ends up offering the better deals for the money.
Our Resources
· BBR Cogeco Forum
. BBR Shaw Forum
. Cogeco User Reviews
· Shaw User Reviews
. BBR Shaw FAQ
. Provider Ratings Chart
Other Resources
· Cogeco Home Page
. Shaw Home Page
. Azureuswiki.com - Canada
In The Spotlight: Canadian Cable Broadband - Cogeco Vs. Shaw
Previously:
• Verizon FiOS Spotlight
• HughesNet Satellite Spotlight
• Optimum Online Spotlight
• Comcast HSI Spotlight
• Clearwire Wireless Internet Spotlight
• EV-DO Showdown - Sprint Vs. Verizon
See also: US Broadband Price Comparisons
So far in the Product Spotlight series, we've looked at several High Speed Internet providers and options from around the United States. In this edition we will take a peek at a couple of High Speed Internet services available to our neighbors to the North, comparing Canadian cable providers Cogeco and Shaw.
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SHAW COMMUNICATIONS
Company Info & Availability
Shaw is the leading residential broadband service provider in Western Canada, with service available in SK, MB, ON, AB, and BC according to our company info page. Shaw provides service to approximately 2.1 million cable television customers and more than one million Internet customers.
Plans, Installation, And Hardware
 Very few problems over seven years with connection. Speeds vary by TOD, but seem to for all cable networks. I have, and will continue to, recommend Shaw internet to anyone who wants good, reliable service. |
• High Speed Lite - (Up to) 256 Kbps download and 128 Kbps upload with a 10 GB per month combined download and upload data transfer limit -- at $22/month when bundled with any other Shaw service, or $29/month stand alone. Currently, Shaw is offering this tier to customers who have not been a Shaw Internet customer within the past 60 days and sign up for Shaw High-Speed Internet service before November 30, 2007 free for 30 days and then $19.95/month for six months (modem rental included).
• High Speed Internet - (Up to) 5 Mbps download and 512 Kbps upload with a 60 GB per month combined download and upload data transfer limit -- at $32/month when bundled with any other Shaw service, or $40.95/month stand alone. Shaw is offering this tier to new customers who have not been a Shaw Internet customer within the past 60 days and sign up for Shaw High-Speed Internet service before November 30, 2007 free for the first 30 days and $29.95/month for the next 6 months, plus customers will receive a Shaw High-Speed modem.
• Xtreme-I - (Up to) 10 Mbps download and 1 Mbps upload with a 100 GB per month combined download and upload data transfer limit at $42/month bundled with another Shaw service, or $50.95/month stand alone. Shaw is offering this tier to new customers who have not been a Shaw Internet customer within the past 60 days and sign up for Shaw High-Speed Internet service before November 30, 2007 free for the first 30 days and $39.95/month for the next 6 months, plus customers will receive a Shaw High-Speed modem.
• Nitro - (Up to) 25 Mbps download and 1 Mbps upload with a 150 GB per month combined download and upload data transfer limit at $93/month when bundled with another Shaw service and a purchased modem, or $101.95 stand alone plus a $5/month modem rental fee. According to the website, there appears to be no deals as with the previously mentioned tiers at this time.
* Please note all prices are in Canadian Dollars (CAD). If you want to see the prices in U.S. Dollars, you can convert the money values here.
It should be noted that the last two speed tiers (Xtreme-I and Nitro) are not yet available in all areas. Shaw's website specifies which markets can get the Xtreme-I and Nitro tiers. Double check with Shaw for additional availability specifics.
All packages offer several free services, including security; webmail; spam filtering; photo sharing; video mail; and Shaw Music, which includes '40 channels of non-stop commercial free hits'. Shaw also offers bundle packages (check bundles and pricing here) and three types of business class services.
Shaw will provide you with a modem, or you may purchase your own. If you have an older modem, Shaw will give you an upgrade. This is recommended, as doing so may fix some speed issues. The Motorola SurfBoard 5102 seems to be a highly recommended modem for the service.
According to reviews left by Shaw customers, installation is usually quick, painless, and professional. Time from order to live varies from as little as one day to as many as fifteen days (in one case much longer, but this was due to upgrades to a building). The average time seems to be about 4 - 5 days.
Customer Service And Reliability
| Tech support like with most ISPs is still hit and miss. |
I recently phoned Shaw to discuss the slower download speeds I'd recently begun to experience and they immediately offered to upgrade my modem to a Motorola SB5102 from a Terayon. The installer arrived a day later with the new modem and my download speeds immediately doubled. A nice part of this is that I _owned_ the original modem and I now own the new one. While here, he also changed the television cable and reception vastly improved. There was no charge for this service.
As for the TV/internet, I setup a TV basic package and Extreme-I internet package. Before I actually got extreme it took about 5 service calls. After this one day my internet and TV stopped working. So I called to book a service call. They never showed up. I called again, and they booked another service call it got canceled. They re-booked but never showed up. So I canceled my TV service with them and until I did that then they had 2 people come to my house and fixed the problem. Now again I'm having problems with my account. I am experiencing the run around. None of their tech support people actually have any idea what's going on. You talk to one person and everything is fine it’s your computer it probably has spyware/virus then the next person actually has some idea what's going on and realizes the problem is a neighborhood problem. I suppose I need to cancel for them to do anything about it.
As far as connection and speed reliability goes, the majority of reviewers seem satisfied. However, many reviewers do note a couple of problems that are common to cable Internet, such as slower speeds and higher latency during peak usage times and overloaded nodes. Shaw's network congestion problems seem to be pretty widespread:Speeds are great during the morning and daytime, almost reaching the full advertised speed of 10mbps downstream and 1mbps upstream. 30-60 ping to Seattle game servers. During the evening though, things get unpredictable. Some evenings will be just fine, other times the download speeds can drop as low as 1.5mbps and upload down to 120kbps, with the pings averaging 160-180 to Seattle servers with spikes as high as 500, as well as 25% upstream packet loss over UDP! This is absolutely BRUTAL for playing online games. This has been going on for the past 2 months. Unless Shaw fixes their network to handle the increased demand, stay away from them if you are an evening online gamer.
Data Limits, Throttling And Traffic Shaping
There may be several reasons why he data transfer limits are not mentioned as much as one might think in reviews. For one thing, since one knows what your limits are, obviously one would be careful not to go over the limit for the service tier they have chosen.
Others find that their choice of service level fits their download/upload requirements:
UPDATE 03/03/07: I am now on Shaw high speed Nitro. The speeds are consistently fast, I often reach speeds over 15 Mbps. I have only had my connection go down when Shaw did some maintenance on my node. The bandwidth caps are still there but they meet my needs.
Still others find Shaw to be somewhat lax in their enforcement of the limits:
I get higher than advertised speeds and I download over 300GB /month and have never had a nasty phone call or invisible throttling.
However, the limits imposed on each service tier and the possible repercussions of violating the limits are clearly spelled out in Shaw's Acceptable Use Policy and Terms of Service. In Broadbandreports.com's Shaw Internet service FAQ, you can read what might happen if you are caught violating the data limits of your service:• First warning is usually sent via email where they ask you to contact them to personally go over the AUP with you to ensure you understand the rules that you are breaking,.
• Second warning usually results in a telephone call and sometimes even a 7 day suspension of service.
• Third warning can result in termination of your internet connection.
Even for the first warning, if you don't answer their email they will deactivate your internet connection until you contact them to "get your attention"
It is important to remember that Shaw determines how much bandwidth you are using, not you. They do this by keeping a record of the last 30 days of usage. BBR member itsanogo has made a neat little program to help you track your monthly usage (rolling 30 days) to get an idea what numbers Shaw is seeing from your account. It is available here.• Second warning usually results in a telephone call and sometimes even a 7 day suspension of service.
• Third warning can result in termination of your internet connection.
Even for the first warning, if you don't answer their email they will deactivate your internet connection until you contact them to "get your attention"
Shaw, according to our FAQ, does limit bandwidth and traffic shape using Ellacoya technology to manipulate speeds of bit torrent and other p2p applications. The company has done so since around 2004.
Note Shaw's language when it comes to bandwidth abuse in its AUP (taken from this BBR Shaw FAQ entry):
| I have Extreme connection but it is a waste of money because I can't use P2P or Bittorrent. Correction - I can use but the speed is so slow it is a waste of time. |
The Shaw AUP loosely defines abuse as the following:
"You must comply with the current bandwidth, data storage and other limitations on the Services.
You must ensure that your activity while using the Services does not improperly restrict, inhibit or degrade any other customer’s use of the Services, nor represent (in the sole judgment of Shaw) an unusually large burden on the network itself, such as, but not limited to, peer to peer file sharing programs, serving streaming video or audio, mail, http, ftp, irc, dhcp servers, and multi-user interactive forums."
"Shaw reserves the right to set specific limits for Bandwidth Usage and charge for excessive Bandwidth Usage for residential Services at any time. In addition, you must ensure that your activities do not improperly restrict, disrupt, inhibit, degrade or impede Shaw’s ability to deliver the Services and monitor the Services, backbone, network nodes, and/or other network services."
Simply put, Shaw can take action to limit bandwidth use, and can impose excess bandwidth fees or other restrictions such as throttling.
"You must comply with the current bandwidth, data storage and other limitations on the Services.
You must ensure that your activity while using the Services does not improperly restrict, inhibit or degrade any other customer’s use of the Services, nor represent (in the sole judgment of Shaw) an unusually large burden on the network itself, such as, but not limited to, peer to peer file sharing programs, serving streaming video or audio, mail, http, ftp, irc, dhcp servers, and multi-user interactive forums."
"Shaw reserves the right to set specific limits for Bandwidth Usage and charge for excessive Bandwidth Usage for residential Services at any time. In addition, you must ensure that your activities do not improperly restrict, disrupt, inhibit, degrade or impede Shaw’s ability to deliver the Services and monitor the Services, backbone, network nodes, and/or other network services."
Simply put, Shaw can take action to limit bandwidth use, and can impose excess bandwidth fees or other restrictions such as throttling.
Not surprisingly, the practice has garnered quite a bit of attention and controversy -- not to mention complaints by customers. The main target of the practice seems to be to limit the bandwidth used by BitTorrent and similar P2P apps. It has been noted that one can sometimes overcome the bandwidth throttling by enabling encryption on their BT clients.
A rather scathing yet telling review, found here, tells the story of what Shaw's sometime unreliability and traffic shaping can do to ones service, especially in a business setting:
We have been a Shaw customer for some time now. I saw 'we' because I represent a small technology company. Since my entry into the company, and subsequent accepting of responsibility of the internet connection, we have had nothing but trouble from Shaw. We download many Linux distributions via Bit Torrent, and recently (March 17th 2007) we have seen our download speeds drop to 10KB/sec with out upload speed essentially non-existent. When the internet [randomly] drops at 3am, it remains down for periods of no shorter then 30 minutes, with an average downtime of over an hour per incident. All of this compounded into a recent decision to advise my company that I am no longer able to troubleshoot their Shaw internet connection due to repeated outages by Shaw of which I hold no sway over. I am forced to further advise that the company switch to a Telus business line.
To be fair, on the opposite end of the spectrum, there are many reviewers that find Shaw's service as reliable as any other provider, and are not bothered by the throttling:Very happy with the services received thus far. Four months after Extreme-I came out, I had decided to upgrade. The consistent speeds are amazing. Always at least 9500/940 if not better. As an avid newsgroup user these speeds are very satisfying. Also no throttling of Bit torrent here. I rarely exceed the 100gig bandwidth limit so no need to complain about it. I have never been hassled by the "bandwidth police" either even when exceeding the limit.
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COGECO, INC.
Company Info & Availability
It is the second largest cable system operator in both Ontario and Québec, (respectively behind Rogers & Videotron), and the fourth largest in Canada. Starting in 2006, Cogeco Cable began the process of overhauling their Ontario & Quebec-based Hybrid fiber-coaxial physical plant networks to expand the total amount of bandwidth available. The ability to offer expanded 2-way bi-directional services such as High Definition digital cable, High-Speed Internet and VoIP, and to improve network reliability is the driving force behind this upgrade.
Plans, Installation, And Hardware
| Overall Cogeco has been great for me over the years... Compared to the speeds from Bell and other DSL providers available to me in my area, it's no contest, cogeco blows them away |
Cogeco Inc. offers three speed tiers for the Quebec and Ontario service areas. Though the speeds are the same, the names and prices of the packages differ in the respective areas.
Ontario Packages and Pricing*:
• High Speed Internet Lite - (Up to) 640 Kbps download and 150 Kbps upload with a 10 GB combined monthly data transfer limit at $27.95 a month with both the Digital Bundle and the Analog Value Pack or $29.95 a month stand alone. All three packages prices include modem. Access to Security Services costs an extra $2 a month with this tier. Currently, Cogeco is offering a promotional price of $24.95/month for 12 months on their website.
• High Speed Internet Standard - (Up to) 10 Mbps download and 640 Kbps upload with a 60 GB combined monthly data transfer limit at $42.95/month with either Digital Bundle or Analog Value Pack or $47.95 stand alone. Modem is included with all three packages. Currently, Cogeco is offering a promotional price of $39.95/month for 12 months on their website.
• High Speed Internet Pro - (Up to) 16 Mbps download and 1 Mbps upload with a 100 GB combined monthly data transfer limit at $64.95/month with Digital Bundle; $66.95/month with the Analog Value Pack; and $69.95/month stand alone. Modem is included with all three packages. There appears to be no promotional pricing on the Cogeco website for this tier at this time.
Quebec Packages and Pricing*:
• Mini - (Up to) 640 Kbps download and 150 Kbps upload with a 10 GB combined monthly data transfer limit with a 10 GB combined monthly data transfer limit at $24.95 a month with any Cable TV or Digital Phone package or $29.95 stand alone. There is a $2/month charge for access to Security Services with this tier. Modem is included in the price. Currently, Cogeco is offering a promotional price of $19.95/month for 12 months on their website.
• Standard - (Up to) 10 Mbps download and 640 Kbps upload with a 60 GB combined monthly data transfer limit at $39.95 a month with any Cable TV or Digital Phone package or $44.95 stand alone. Modem is included in the price. Currently, Cogeco is offering a promotional price of $36.95/month for 12 months on their website.
• Pro - (Up to) 16 Mbps download and 1 Mbps upload with a 100 GB combined monthly data transfer limit at $64.95 a month with any Cable TV or Digital Phone package or $69.95 stand alone. Modem is included in the price. There appears to be no promotional pricing on the Cogeco website for this tier at this time.
Cogeco also offers bundle packages (Ontario, Quebec) and several business class services (Ontario, Quebec).
* All prices are in Canadian Dollars (CAD). If you want to see the prices in U.S. Dollars, you can convert the money values here.
It is worth noting that according to a post in our Cogeco Forum, prices may be increasing as of November 16th.
According to reviews left by Cogeco customers, installation is usually quick and painless. Time from order to live varies from as little as one day to as many as 30 days. The average time seems to be about 7 days.
You can check out which modems Cogeco offers in this thread from our Cogeco forum.
Customer Service And Reliability
This review gives the good and bad points of Cogeco's service from the view of a 10 year customer:
I've been using Cogeco's service since before their name was attached, for at least 10 years and I've typically had an all around excellent experience with their service. The following encompasses my most recent two years with their service.
Cogeco has many positive points:
- excellent newsgroup support that's far better than any other ISP in our region; 3 day retention with subscription support for many binary groups.
- a strong team of employees that genuinely care about their users
- local knowledgeable tech support that speak a clear and understandable English who are available 24/7
- a number of dedicated employees who take personal time to help people on broadband reports
- some highly motivated, dedicated and skilled on-site techs
Cogeco's negative points:
- inflexibility in scheduling on-site support calls outside of large cities
- a few on-site techs who aren't so skilled
- often the phone support personal are not aware of issues that they should be aware of, to better help customers often which result in...
- an inability to repair or diagnose issues that clearly exist outside your home
Cogeco has many positive points:
- excellent newsgroup support that's far better than any other ISP in our region; 3 day retention with subscription support for many binary groups.
- a strong team of employees that genuinely care about their users
- local knowledgeable tech support that speak a clear and understandable English who are available 24/7
- a number of dedicated employees who take personal time to help people on broadband reports
- some highly motivated, dedicated and skilled on-site techs
Cogeco's negative points:
- inflexibility in scheduling on-site support calls outside of large cities
- a few on-site techs who aren't so skilled
- often the phone support personal are not aware of issues that they should be aware of, to better help customers often which result in...
- an inability to repair or diagnose issues that clearly exist outside your home
Though there are of course some issues common to cable Internet such as overloaded nodes, many reviews compliment Cogeco's service on its reliability:
I've been a cogeco subscriber for 25 years (TV), and went with their internet service about 5 years ago now. Never had any issues with the cable tv aspect. As for internet access, first off no one can touch cogeco's speed and reliability. I have had 99.9% up time.
Cogeco is by far the best ISP in Niagara, as they are usually reliable
The last three years have for the most part been uneventful. Speeds are consistently fast and reliability in the last year is greater than 99.999% (excluding power outages where the whole neighbourhood was out
The Bandwidth Cap Enforcement Uproar
| Now that Cogeco has updated their policies to enforce a hard cap of 60GB combined, I'm really considering other options. I find that is too little even without doing any sort of P2P activity. Our household uses almost 1.5GB a day, and that's not counting P2P. It is a pity, since the 10mbit and stability have been really nice. |
Up until a couple months ago, most customers seem to have beeen relatively satisfied with their service. Of course Cogeco's AUP had made it clear that the service does have data caps, and if you go over them you could have your service terminated:
Customers shall comply with the bandwidth, data storage and other limitations associated with their Service plan, as amended from time to time by COGECO at its sole discretion. Although COGECO has no obligation to monitor the Service and/or the network, COGECO reserves the right to monitor bandwidth, usage, and content from time to time to operate the Service; to identify violations of this Policy; and/or to protect the network and COGECO Customers.
COGECO prefers to advise Customers of inappropriate behavior and any necessary corrective action. Any such correspondence will be sent to the primary contact E-mail address attached to the account. COGECO, in its sole discretion, may take any actions deemed appropriate to preserve the integrity of its network and the Service. Such actions include, but are not limited to, temporary or permanent removal of content, cancellation of newsgroup posts, discontinuing access to any Usenet newsgroup, filtering of Internet transmissions, and the immediate suspension, discontinuance, limitation or termination of the Service. COGECO will not incur any liability for any such responsive actions.
COGECO reserves the right to investigate suspected violations of this Policy, including the gathering of information from the user or users involved and the complaining party, if any, and examination of material on COGECO's servers and network.
COGECO prefers to advise Customers of inappropriate behavior and any necessary corrective action. Any such correspondence will be sent to the primary contact E-mail address attached to the account. COGECO, in its sole discretion, may take any actions deemed appropriate to preserve the integrity of its network and the Service. Such actions include, but are not limited to, temporary or permanent removal of content, cancellation of newsgroup posts, discontinuing access to any Usenet newsgroup, filtering of Internet transmissions, and the immediate suspension, discontinuance, limitation or termination of the Service. COGECO will not incur any liability for any such responsive actions.
COGECO reserves the right to investigate suspected violations of this Policy, including the gathering of information from the user or users involved and the complaining party, if any, and examination of material on COGECO's servers and network.
The policy seems to have been rather softly enforced until, apparently in September, Cogeco decided to take a hardline on enforcing the data caps on each package. Many Cogeco users suddenly found themselves receiving warning emails from the provider about going over their data limits or just having their service outright suspended. This new policy has caused quite an uproar within the Cogeco customer base. A large thread discussing the sudden enforcement can be found here in our Cogeco forum, and is well worth the read. Another interesting discussion on the cap enforcement policy from our Cogeco Forum can be read here.
The sudden harsh enforcement has caused many frustrated formally satisfied customers to cancel service, if possible. Many of these users have gone with DSL provider Teksavvy, who is most mentioned in our Cogeco Forum and our Cogeco customer reviews as the best option if available in the area.
Some reactions to the new hardline policy from reviews left on this site and our Cogeco forum:
My main problem is that there are no residential packages offered for heavy downloaders. Sending warnings and offering upgrades to pro may work for standard users but people like me who upgraded to pro a long time ago are forced to either upgrade to a business package or go elsewhere. Since the business packages come with lots of frills a residential user does not need, does that mean I am simply no longer wanted as a customer? With all the bandwidth that must be saved by not only traffic shaping but now enforcing a hard bitcap, surely more monthly data transfer could be sold to people who need it even if it comes with slower speeds.
Cogeco has now instilled a sense of extreme uncertainty in some customers (personally, and from what I've read here). It's not uncommon for residential customers to have multiple PC's in their homes, and to do work from home as well (the work day doesn't stop for me when I get home from the office). I now honestly don't know what Cogeco is going to consider reasonable use, or when I'll get a warning. All I know is that I can't afford to endure an interruption that is UNILATERALLY DETERMINED. And I can't be constantly logging onto the Cogeco website to determine how my monthly usage is tracking toward the cap.
The sudden enforcement of a BW cap after a minimum of 8 years of not enforcing it (i have been with Cogeco for 8 years) is unacceptable. Cogeco used to be a really great ISP, but they have most certainly lost their way.
I just received a letter in the mail saying prices are being increased by $5/month. This is absolutely ridiculous now, I'm only getting 1/5 the service I'm paying for now on average, and now not only do they increase the price by $5, the start limiting our service by enforcing caps as well? The service is now not even close to worth the money! WHAT ARE YOU THINKING COGECO?! All I can say is, Hello Teksavvy!
Enforcement of bitcaps in the middle of the month was a terrible idea. I was not affected, but nevertheless I think it is a bad idea. Also, the enforcement system had issues which suspended many people before warnings were even sent. If they had taken the time to ensure the system would work properly, and then begun enforcement at the beginning of October instead after notifying customers, things would have gone much more smoothly. No longer impressed after this poor execution of policy, however, since I do not exceed the bitcap, I will stay with Cogeco for the speed.
I've liked Cogeco's service but I always review my spending whether it's Cable my cell or telephone etc. I've found them to be too pricey and their 60 GB Cap can be annoying some months. They never used to bother me with it until recently. What I find confusing is there approach in a world where caps should be rising to provide better access to online media Caps are now being enforced even more rigidly.
We are now able to stream HD over the internet, perhaps they find this a threat to their own business model.
We are now able to stream HD over the internet, perhaps they find this a threat to their own business model.
Overall Cogeco has been great for me over the years... Compared to the speeds from Bell and other DSL providers available to me in my area, it's no contest, cogeco blows them away.. The only downside now is the enforced 60gig bitcaps but thats plenty enough for me. Now that a lot of the bandwidth hogs are leaving for Teksavvy, it should make for better service all around.
Giving 'unlimited bandwidth' doesn't necessarily make teksavvy better. Except for this blip with Cogeco, I've been with them for at least 8 years now and they've been great.. And their speeds blow teksavvys out of the water.. Time will tell if teksavvy can last...
Perhaps the most pertinent comments on the situation (taken from several responses to questions in this thread) comes from BBR member Krispy, a Cogeco employee:
[The reaction to the new policy is] getting attention, I can assure you that Cogeco management is watching the threads [here on Broadbandreports.com] (and has been for a while) and will definitely be continuing the discussion on your thoughts, comments, frustrations, etc.
I know it sounds like a canned response but it's my personal canned response so...I'm sad to see anyone leave but I understand you need to find the best service provider for your online requirements. If your online requirements require a vast amount of bandwidth, far exceeding any of our packages, then I wouldn't personally recommend Cogeco to you.
I had a late afternoon meeting and I am personally encouraged by the comments in that meeting. Changes, if they occur, may not come fast enough for some of you (IMO) but I currently feel that some positive changes may occur based on comments from customers.
The Bottom Line - Shaw Communications
 |
Although American high speed Internet customers may not be familiar with having data transfer caps (at least visible ones) as part of their service agreements, this does not seem to be a huge sticking point with Shaw customers. Shaw also seems not to take a hardline in enforcing the transfer caps as indicated by some reviewers admitting they go over (sometimes well over) the stated cap for their service tier.
The prices and speeds for Shaw's 4 packages compare favorably to most U.S. ISP prices, and provide a fair number of choices for your needs... provided the Xtreme-I and Nitro tiers are available in your area. If they are not yet available in your area, the Lite and High Speed Internet tiers don't provide much of a choice and aren't a great value for the price, caps, and traffic shaping.
While there are the usual knocks against customer service and tech support, the main complaints seem to be Shaw's traffic shaping and, more so, what seems to be pretty widespread network congestion and overloaded nodes. A number of reviews mention not coming close to advertised speeds on a regular basis, and not just during peak usage hours. Noticeably flaky network reliability and somewhat harsh traffic shaping are the real prices you pay for use of Shaw's service.
The Bottom Line - Cogeco, Inc.
 |
The provider offers 3 tiers of service with the same speeds but different prices for its markets in Ontario and Quebec with the Quebec market prices being slightly higher than the Ontario market according to the Cogeco website. However, the 3 tiers provide a decent enough choice for the needs of Cogeco's customers. Customer service and tech support are as with most other providers -- luck of the draw.
Many reviews do view Cogeco's network reliability in favorable light. Like Shaw, Cogeco also does traffic shape. However, Cogeco's recent and sudden decision to take a hard line and strictly enforce its data caps, suspending and terminating customer's service (with little or no warning) has been badly received by many Cogeco customers. Many are migrating to other providers to avoid being cut off for a slight offense. Cogeco's new hardline stance on caps makes it a hard sell to customers who want to use their bandwidth to its full potential.
The Deal Breaker
Which provider, Shaw Communications or Cogeco, Inc., gives the best bang for your Canadian buck? This is actually a pretty close one to call. The pros and cons of each service are about even. Let's look at each providers packages side-by-side (all prices are in Canadian Dollars; you can convert the prices to U.S. Dollars here):
• Shaw's High Speed Lite gives you only 256Kbps down 128Kbps up with a 10 GB limit at $22 or $29.95 (depending on bundle or stand alone) vs. Cogeco's Lite (Ontario) or Mini (Quebec) with 640Kbps down and 150Kbps up with also a 10 GB limit at $24.95 (Ontario) - $27.95 (Quebec) or $29.95 (both). Although Cogeco gives you slightly better speeds, with the prices of the packages and 10 GB caps neither providers Lite service tier is worth having unless you literally only surf the web, check email, and very occasionally download something.
• Shaw's High Speed Internet gives you 5Mbps down and 512Kbps up with a 60GB cap at $32 (bundled) or $40.95 (stand alone) vs. Cogeco's High Speed internet Standard, which offers 10Mbps down and 640Kbps up with 60 GB cap at $42.95 (bundled) or $47.95 (stand alone) in the Ontario service area and $39.95 (bundled) or $44.95 (stand alone) in the Quebec service area. Cogeco's Standard tier offering clearly beats Shaw's offer in speed, although the 60GB cap Cogeco puts on the tier is a bit of a drawback in regard to the speeds offered. Still, Cogeco's Standard tier is worth the few extra dollars when compared to Shaw -- especially if you live in a Shaw area where the providers next two tiers, Xtreme-I and Nitro, are not available.
• If you live in and area where Shaw offers Xreme-I, this tier offers 10Mbps down and 1Mbps up with a 100GB cap at $42.00 (bundled) or $50.95 (stand alone). Cogeco's HSI Pro tier offers 16Mbps down and 1Mbps up with a 100GB cap at $64.95 (Digital Bundle), $66.95 (Analog Bundle), or $69.95 (Stand alone) in the Ontario service area; and $64.95 (CATV or Digital bundle) or $69.95 (stand alone) in the Quebec service area. While Cogeco has the better speeds, this is offset by the identical caps for the speeds offered and the price difference. As a result, Shaw's Xtreme-I would be the better deal for the money.
Shaw goes one further than Cogeco in its offerings with the Nitro package. Nitro gives you 25Mbps down and 1Mbps up with a 150GB cap at $93.00 (bundled) or $101.95 (stand alone). The speeds are nice to have (if Nitro is available in your area, of course), but the package is on the more expensive side and a higher cap would make the package a better deal considering the speeds.
On the surface, when it comes to the tiers made available by each provider the pros and cons of the various packages offered don't provide for a clear cut better deal when compared against each other and results in a draw in this respect. It's when you dig deeper into the services that you find the little differences that gives one a slight edge over the other in comparison:
• Customer service and Tech Support are no better or worse for both ISP's than any other provider's.
• Though both providers service suffers from the common cable Internet problem of network congestion, Cogeco seems to have the edge when it comes to network reliability. Shaw seems to have more problems with network congestion and overloaded nodes, resulting in more cases of significantly dropped speeds and higher latency during prime usage hours when compared to Cogeco.
• Both ISP's practice traffic shaping and bandwidth throttling when it comes to BitTorrent and other P2P applications. While both do so publicly, there seems to be more complaints about the practice in Shaw reviews than in Cogeco reviews. This doesn't necessarily mean that Shaw is worse than Cogeco in this respect, as there are ways around the practice such as encryption. The higher number of complaints about traffic shaping and throttling by Shaw customers could be the result of the different handling of the next practice in this list -- data transfer caps.
• Both ISP's, as with several other of the major Canadian ISP's, have mothly data transfer limits. While nobody likes data caps, the caps by themselves do not seem to be a huge sticking point with either Shaw or Cogeco customers, most likely because, unlike American ISP's, the caps are clearly denoted by both providers. Shaw and Cogeco customers know exactly how much they are allowed according to the package they purchase, and so are careful to stay close to the monthly allowance. Both ISP's provide a way to track usage so customers know where they stand in monthly usage against their respective packages cap.
However, it is the difference in enforcement of the data caps by Shaw and Cogeco that is in fact the deal breaker in an otherwise very close comparison. While Shaw has a soft enforcement policy on its caps, Cogeco, as noted previously in the discussion of its service, has suddenly and unexpectedly taken a hardline stance in enforcing its monthly data transfer caps. While reactions to and opinions of the new policy differ, there is no question the new enforcement policy has been extremely poorly implemented by Cogeco. Customers received little or no notice of Cogeco's new stance and many customers suddenly found themsleves without service without warning. Why Cogeco suddenly decided to heavily enforce its caps is anyone's guess, but a good insight is found in this review:
What I find confusing is there approach in a world where caps should be rising to provide better access to online media Caps are now being enforced even more rigidly.
We are now able to stream HD over the internet, perhaps they find this a threat to their own business model.
The question for Cogeco is an easy one and the same one for all Internet Service providers
The Future is higher bandwidth and higher data volume
How will you meet this demand before someone else lures away your clients
We are now able to stream HD over the internet, perhaps they find this a threat to their own business model.
The question for Cogeco is an easy one and the same one for all Internet Service providers
The Future is higher bandwidth and higher data volume
How will you meet this demand before someone else lures away your clients
It is not because of the fact that Cogeco is strictly enforcing their data caps that gives Shaw the edge in this comparison. It is because of the fact that Cogeco badly muffed the implementation of the new enforcement policy, and because of the resulting lack of higher cap alternative packages to offset the now strictly enforced caps that Shaw ends up offering the better deals for the money.
Resources
Our Resources
· BBR Cogeco Forum
. BBR Shaw Forum
. Cogeco User Reviews
· Shaw User Reviews
. BBR Shaw FAQ
. Provider Ratings Chart
Other Resources
· Cogeco Home Page
. Shaw Home Page
. Azureuswiki.com - Canada