Real Consumer Group Takes Aim At Fake Ones - Free press highlights use of 'astroturf' in telecom...again...
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Real Consumer Group Takes Aim At Fake Ones Free press highlights use of 'astroturf' in telecom...again... 04:18PM Thursday Aug 20 2009 by Karl Bode tags: legal · prices · competition · business · alternatives · Op/Ed · cable · telco · legislation · trouble · Politics · Hype · net-neutrality · consumers · caps
With the network neutrality circus back in town, the use of bogus grass roots groups (aka "astroturf") is again on the upswing as corporations lobby Uncle Sam to prevent network neutrality legislation. Such misleadingly named groups (grandmothers for network justice?) are used by corporations in every sector to give the illusion of broad consumer support for ideas that are anti-consumer. In telecom, that means supporting metered billing (it's patriotic!) higher prices (it's good for you!) and fewer consumer protections (all government regulation kills puppies, fellow patriot). Free Press, one of the few consumer advocacy groups these days that actually represents consumers without taking corporate cash, this week took aim at astroturf, highlighting how many additional consumers could be wired for the amount of money spent on misleading lobbying. The group went a little further by creating a handy interactive graphic on the subject. Comcast's annual lobbying budget jumped from $570,000 in 2001 to $12.5 million in 2008, while cable lobbying group the NCTA doubled its lobbying budget to $14.4 million during the same period. Verizon's lobbying rose to $18 million in 2008 from $8.2 million in 2001, while AT&T's annual budget fattened to $15.1 million in 2008 from $6.1 million. But direct lobbying budgets are only a very small part of it. Those numbers don't include the hiring of smear merchants, the creation of artificial consumer advocacy groups, or the use of legitimate disability and minority groups, who parrot whatever company positions they're told to in exchange for a nice new events center. Collectively, this creates the illusion of broad support for laws or policies that a public majority would never actually support. Like oh, broadband caps as low as 1GB with per gig overages that require second mortgages. "The fake grassroots groups are spending major resources to deceive the public and promote agendas of the corporations that sign their paychecks," said Timothy Karr, campaign director of Free Press. "We need transparency, accountability and honest debate. The crucial policy decisions being made right now about the future of the Internet must be based on independent research, reliable data and facts. The phone and cable companies must stop distorting the issues and hiding behind their astroturf groups, sock puppets and hired shills." Sure, ok -- but nobody ever seems to have a real solution to this problem. I've been complaining about these groups for a decade but they only seem to get worse (see the current health care "debate" as exhibit A). Corporate "personhood" gives the companies involved the right to free speech, but should there be restrictions forcing companies to only speak as themselves? Artificial consumer groups and other forms of disinformation are the worst sort of propaganda -- but outside of consumer education (or napalm) what exactly is the solution? Related:- Wednesday Evening Links
- Friday Evening Links
- Scott Cleland: Google Using 21x The Bandwidth They Pay For
- Verizon's Open Development Initiative? So Far It's A Joke
- Time Warner Cable: Let's Not Talk About Net Neutrality
- Is Verizon Considering Metered Billing?
- What Network Neutrality Is REALLY About
- AT&T: Google Is The Enemy Of Nuns
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eggboard @ 20th Aug 04:26PM:
Sock puppets
Like the image you used on this one. Astroturf and sock puppets are the enemies of open, free discussion, and the lack of requirement of donor disclosure in non-profit laws is probably a bad one. I know that there are good reasons many charities not engaged in political lobbies keep their donor list private or limited. However, in the cases in which political speech is involved, that should be null and void.
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TKJunkMail @ 20th Aug 04:35PM:
Re: Sock puppets
said by eggboard :
However, in the cases in which political speech is involved, that should be null and void.
I agree. Who are Free Press' real contributors? They are hidden, just like those they accuse.
»Real Consumer Group Takes Aim At Fake Onesactually represents consumers without taking corporate cash
Their contributions are hidden by blacked out IRS 990 forms and much money comes from foundations where the source of funds is hidden.
»www.freepress.net/about_us/annual_reports
See starting on pg 9 of IRS form 990 for 2008:
»www.freepress.net/files/FP_990_c···inal.pdf
AND
»www.freepress.net/files/FPAF-990···ined.pdf
Contributors are NOT listed.
And from 2007(last available) annual report:
»freepress.net/files/2007annualreport-web.pdf
Dudley Foundation
Ford Foundation
Frances Fund
Glaser Progress Foundation
Haas Charitable Trusts
Madrona Foundation
Nathan Cummings Foundation
Open Society Institute
Overbrook Foundation
Park Foundation
Proteus Fund
Quixote Foundation
Revson Foundation
Rockefeller Brothers Fund
Rockefeller Family Fund
Rockefeller Philanthropic Advisors
Steve & Paula Child Foundation
Streisand Foundation
Tides Foundation
Town Creek Foundation
Wallace Global Fund
Woodcock Foundation
Working Assets
It would be nice for Free Press to show where THEIR funds come from.
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vrp @ 20th Aug 04:37PM:
so who is footing the bill?
Quote:Comcast's annual lobbying budget jumped from $570,000 in 2001 to $12.5 million in 2008, while cable lobbying group the NCTA doubled its lobbying budget to $14.4 million during the same period. Verizon's lobbying rose to $18 million in 2008 from $8.2 million in 2001, while AT&T's annual budget fattened to $15.1 million in 2008 from $6.1 million.
.
... I wonder who finally foots the bill for these massive amounts involved? ...
... oops! ... it is you and me in form of highly overpriced services! ...
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viperlmw @ 20th Aug 04:52PM:
The solution is a constitutional amendment
"Corporate "personhood" gives the companies involved the right to free speech, but should there be restrictions forcing companies to only speak as themselves? Artificial consumer groups and other forms of disinformation are the worst sort of propaganda -- but outside of consumer education (or napalm) what exactly is the solution?"
The solution is a constitutional amendment completely and unequivocal removing the right of 'personhood' from corporations. Corporations are not citizens. They may employ citizens, they may be owned by citizens, but they are NOT citizens. Once the Constitution has been amended, then it is possible to regulate their speech as much as necessary.
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Karl Bode @ 20th Aug 05:00PM:
Re: Sock puppets
Yes, $2 million in individual donations and grants from the same evil shadow donors and villainous academics who bring the public things like public TV Ken Burns documentaries on jazz. Good eye.
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Tails @ 20th Aug 05:10PM:
Bleh...
And this is exactly why it's useless to fight as a minority. This site represents the minority who care about our broadband future, and until people decide to start caring, this will only continue to get worse. You can complain/take action all you want Karl, but one man vs. a few major corporations with deep pockets = fail for you.
I try to tell people about this nonsense about our Internet, to start caring and start doing something about it, but all people want to do is complain, and keep paying exhorbant prices.
--
Do or do not, there is no try! - Yoda
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Skippy25 @ 20th Aug 05:14PM:
Re: Sock puppets
Your failed attempt to try to make them out to be the same as these corporate hand puppets is entertaining.
Come to think of it.... you would be one of those that has a hand up........... nevermind.
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MTU @ 20th Aug 05:26PM:
Re: The solution is a constitutional amendment
Re: Corporations:
Well stated and I agree 100%
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ISurfTooMuch @ 20th Aug 05:29PM:
Re: Bleh...
But see, you've gotten caught in a Catch-22. You want people to care, but then you state that it is useless for just one person or a small organization to fight these companies. But if no one starts the ball rolling, then you can't get people to care.
It'd be like trying to fill a bucket using a teaspoon. No, one teaspoonful won't make a difference, but 1,000 of them will. But if no one will use their teaspoon because they think it isn't enough, then it will never get done. People may be willing, but if no one thinks they CAN do it, then they WON'T do it.
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TKJunkMail @ 20th Aug 05:33PM:
Re: Sock puppets
said by Karl Bode :
Yes, $2 million in individual donations and grants from the same evil shadow donors and villainous academics who bring the public things like public TV Ken Burns documentaries on jazz. Good eye.
Yes the likes of the Tides Foundation, which funds the left wing organization Acorn(of famed election fraud tactics) & Free Press and staffed and funded by Teresa Heinz Kerry(yes the wife and banker for Sen Kerry) to the tune of $8 million and staffed by DNC operatives. »www.nlpc.org/stories/2009/08/06/···s-guilty
So let's not put Free Press up on some pedestal - their money comes directly from anti-corporate political hacks from the Democratic Party.
And that was just digging in to 1 Free Press contributor. I just am not going to take the time to dig thru who is funding all those other foundations giving money to Free Press.
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anon @ 20th Aug 05:33PM:
Responding to the astroturf charge
From Scott Cleland, Chairman of Netcompetition.org, an eforum funded by broadband companies.
FreePress launched another effort to discredit my views and those of others in a new "Unmasking Astroturf" campaign where they called me the "Astro-turfer-in-chief."
I have some questions for FreePress on "astro-turfing."
1. How is it "Astro-turfing" when I am fully disclosed and routinely communicate NetCompetition.org is a pro-competition e-forum funded by broadband interests?
It is not news that I work for company interests or that I philosophically believe, like broadband companies do, that competition is better for consumers and the economy than government regulation.
My mission and purpose are fully transparent and public.
My views are authentically my own and not synthetic as the epithet "astroturf" implies.
◦Why would it be surprising that I would work for entities whose core positions I agree with, just like people work for FreePress because they agree with FreePress?
◦A great thing about America is that one has constitutional rights to free speech and to assemble with whom one wants to.
Given that FreePress is often loose with policy facts it does not surprise me that FreePress is loose with process facts as well.
2. Why does FreePress shoot the messenger rather than the message?
Often ad hominem attacks are employed to distract focus from the substance and merit of a debate. It appears FreePress does not want people to be "open" to hearing my analysis or arguments that:
◦It is common sense that the Internet has a natural "hierarchy of needs" that is in inherent conflict with FreePress' desire for a neutral or priority-less Internet;
◦FreePress's favored net neutrality legislation in fact is not about preserving the status quo, but is the most extreme version of net neutrality yet; and
◦The open Internet has a growing Internet security problem that makes reasonable network management essential and FreePress' position unworkable.
3. How is it "astro-turfing" to be accurate?
FreePress called me the "Boy who cried socialism" to imply that, like the "boy who cried wolf," I have somehow not been truthful about what I have said about FreePress' views.
◦Well I haven't commented on a recent interview by FreePress' co-Founder, Mr. Robert McChesney in the Bullet, the Socialist Project newsletter, but since FreePress was the one which raised the subject in an inaccurate effort to discredit my truthfulness, McChesney's interview confirms that I was indeed accurate -- given how unabashed FreePress's co-founder is about FreePress' socialist views and agenda in his most recent public interview.
4. How transparent is FreePress about its backing?
It seems fair that if FreePress is questioning and disparaging the transparency of groups who promote views in opposition to theirs, that FreePress would be interested in bending over backwards to be transparent about their funding and supporters.
Who are FreePress' biggest donors?
Does FreePress accept significant in-kind contributions of any kind from corporations?
Does FreePress consider large individual contributions from employees of companies to be just individuals for transparency purposes?
Does FreePress believe its allies should also be transparent about their funding and supporters? e.g. New America Foundation, Public Knowledge, Open Internet Coalition, etc.
In closing, I am thankful to have the opportunity to systematically counter FreePress' spurious charges.
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SLD @ 20th Aug 05:40PM:
Re: Sock puppets
I believe that corporations should not have Contitutionally protected free speech.
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SLD @ 20th Aug 05:42PM:
Re: The solution is a constitutional amendment
Thank you! I've been saying that this very issue is the root of nearly *all* evil in our political system, and if your suggestion is not followed by a reversal in the Supreme Court, it'll take our nation down with it.
Think about it, corporation reform will eliminate nearly every political problem you can think of.
Can you imagine how quickly we'd have universal healthcare if the corps weren't astroturfing or hiring big PR firms to fool people into believing it is bad for them?
Can you imagine if we had more than two choices for president because a corporation (Commission on Presidential Debates) wasn't forcing out 3rd party candidates?
Can you imagine how many choices we'd have for communications if large corps (ATT, Verizon, etc) were not allow to do this shit?
Can you imagine having a representative that was chosen by voters, not by corporate dollars?
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fatness @ 20th Aug 05:50PM:
the big guys aren't going to like this
Expect massive $$ and effort to attack any consumer group like this. And an army of these:




--
this is serious
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Karl Bode @ 20th Aug 05:52PM:
Re: Sock puppets
I just am not going to take the time to dig thru who is funding all those other foundations giving money to Free Press.
Of course you aren't. Much of their funding comes from individual donors and academics who really are simply interested in consumer rights and a transparent media.
Though I've heard some rumors that satan is at the bottom of it all, pushing for such evil concepts as lower prices for consumers. I hear there's a lot of money to be made there...
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vinnie97 @ 20th Aug 05:56PM:
Re: Sock puppets
Boom, how inconvenient...liberalism blinds some folks to what is right in front of them. Let's just ignore some of the more sinister donors and only pretend that all money is being funneled for the greater good. :uhh:
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vinnie97 @ 20th Aug 05:58PM:
Re: Sock puppets
Both of them are nefarious...to put one above the other is a fool's task.
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gorehound @ 20th Aug 06:03PM:
Re: The solution is a constitutional amendment
Money is the root of all evil.
I am very sick of all this corporate krap.
I am currently boycotting all large corporate music labels and any label/artist who signs with the RIAA
I am also boycotting Hollywood by not buying any new DVD's or paying for theater tickets.I do buy DVD's but only used ones.
If I could I would cancel my slime warner roadrunner but no competition to go to in my area (thanks a lot democratic goverment)
as much as i hate the fake communism of china,russia,etc i do have thoughts once in a while we might be better off under a real commie system.
just look at what capitalism does for us as i see no good on my poor end.
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Fox McCloud @ 20th Aug 06:20PM:
Oh please...
The argument they use against Qwest is quite pathetic, and is a lousy "guilt by association" argument:
Qwest executives have said that the publics call for Net Neutrality would disrupt the companys ability to improve services to customers. Theres no problem, they have said repeatedly. Let us regulate ourselves. This comes from the same company whose former top executives were convicted for committing massive financial fraud involving $3.8 billion in phony revenues.
.
so, I guess we're supposed to judge the current administration of a company/government/organization by its past leaders?
In any event, it's not big secret on my position of this....consumer are between a rock and a hard place....net neutrality obviously violates the property rights of the company's networks...but if the measures are particularly harsh for consumers, it's going to suck, big time.
that said, the problem ultimately is from excessive governmental interference in being able to deploy wherever desired, not to mention tons of red tape to comply with at the FCC.
Unless massive deregulation is undertaken (*sigh* it'll probably never happen), I can't see future plans for broadband being that great.
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sonicmerlin @ 20th Aug 06:24PM:
Re: Sock puppets
Are you nuts? What about their ideology is 'nefarious'?
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sonicmerlin @ 20th Aug 06:25PM:
Re: Sock puppets
Irrationality blinds those from actually judging an ideology based on its logical merits. How about actually reading some of the things Free Press puts out?
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sonicmerlin @ 20th Aug 06:28PM:
Re: Bleh...
I think the point he's trying to make is that despite the activity of pro-consumer groups things have gotten much worse over the last 8 years, in large part due to the tenure of George Bush. The direction of a democratic country is not significantly influenced by its constituents, rather by those who are temporarily in power.
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anon @ 20th Aug 06:31PM:
msg deleted
deleted by a moderator
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TKJunkMail @ 20th Aug 06:35PM:
Re: Responding to the astroturf charge
said by Cleland :
From Scott Cleland, Chairman of Netcompetition.org, an eforum funded by broadband companies.
It seems fair that if FreePress is questioning and disparaging the transparency of groups who promote views in opposition to theirs, that FreePress would be interested in bending over backwards to be transparent about their funding and supporters.
Who are FreePress' biggest donors?
Does FreePress accept significant in-kind contributions of any kind from corporations?
Does FreePress consider large individual contributions from employees of companies to be just individuals for transparency purposes?
Does FreePress believe its allies should also be transparent about their funding and supporters? e.g. New America Foundation, Public Knowledge, Open Internet Coalition, etc.
In closing, I am thankful to have the opportunity to systematically counter FreePress' spurious charges.
You would think so, but their attitude is do as I say and NOT as I do.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
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sonicmerlin @ 20th Aug 06:40PM:
Re: Responding to the astroturf charge
quote:
1. How is it "Astro-turfing" when I am fully disclosed and routinely communicate NetCompetition.org is a pro-competition e-forum funded by broadband interests?
Because "broadband interests" have no interest in competition. Why would they? It cuts into their bottom line and forces them to spend more money on marketing, innovative services, and lower prices. The only large corporation I've ever seen to actually encourage competition by other companies with themselves was Google.
quote:
â¦A great thing about America is that one has constitutional rights to free speech and to assemble with whom one wants to.
The problem with America is that corporations have the right to free speech and face no legal consequences for funding "consumer groups" to promote their views. They are treated like citizens, when in fact they are not.
quote:
â¦The open Internet has a growing Internet security problem that makes reasonable network management essential and FreePress' position unworkable.
Wow. Really. So all the usage based billing and overcharging schemes are for our security. Ohhh I see. I had no idea!!! Wow, you're as concerned about our security as George Bush was when he used a secret government program that almost no one (including Congress) knew about to wiretap every American without their consent.
quote:
given how unabashed FreePress's co-founder is about FreePress' socialist views and agenda in his most recent public interview
Nice how you repeatedly emphasize their socialistic policies. Because socialism is EVIL! It's COMMUNISM! Wait...it's not? But... that doesn't matter to you does it?
quote:
â¢Given that FreePress is often loose with policy facts it does not surprise me that FreePress is loose with process facts as well.
No they're not. Have you actually read their written releases? They're incredibly detailed and extensively researched. It's always a pleasure to read the things they put out.
Compare it to the trash organizations like yours puts out, and they might as well be a consumer messiah.
quote:
Who are FreePress' biggest donors?
Does FreePress accept significant in-kind contributions of any kind from corporations?
Does FreePress consider large individual contributions from employees of companies to be just individuals for transparency purposes?
You are using the issue of financial backing to obfuscate the real issue at hand. A simple cursory overview of Free Press's works will clearly demonstrate their pro-consumer attitude. It's not hard to differentiate between the obvious lies and deceit your organization puts out (less government regulation and more money for us will encourage us to invest! We promise! Yay!), and the pro-little guy approach most of their works take on.
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sonicmerlin @ 20th Aug 06:42PM:
Re: Responding to the astroturf charge
Your debunked views on the CRTC automatically disqualifies you from commenting on federal regulation issues.
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sonicmerlin @ 20th Aug 06:44PM:
Re: Oh please...
quote:
net neutrality obviously violates the property rights of the company's networks.
What the FRICK? What the devil are you talking about?
It does NO SUCH THING! Ugh... what the heck is wrong with you?
quote:
Unless massive deregulation is undertaken (*sigh* it'll probably never happen), I can't see future plans for broadband being that great.
Wow. You've actually given me a headache. You're ignoring the conduct and history of this nation's last 30 years, especially the FCC's last eight. I'll get back to you in a few hours after I exercise out some of my irritation.
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TKJunkMail @ 20th Aug 06:49PM:
Re: Responding to the astroturf charge
said by sonicmerlin :
Your debunked views on the CRTC automatically disqualifies you from commenting on federal regulation issues.
Debunked by some posters at BBR? How will I stand it?? :p
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
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nasadude @ 20th Aug 06:58PM:
Re: Sock puppets
said by TKJunkMail :
...the left wing organization Acorn(of famed election fraud tactics)...
RIGHT WING TALKING POINT ALERT!!!
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nasadude @ 20th Aug 07:06PM:
Re: Sock puppets
said by vinnie97 :
Boom, how inconvenient...liberalism blinds some folks to what is right in front of them. Let's just ignore some of the more sinister donors and only pretend that all money is being funneled for the greater good. :uhh:
well.......
Free Press actually does advocate for consumers, so I don't care where their money comes from. They're not pretending to be something they're not.
The point of this is that the turfers are actively, purposefully trying to deceive people for the advantage of the companies that fund them.
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nasadude @ 20th Aug 07:07PM:
Re: Sock puppets
said by SLD :
I believe that corporations should not have Contitutionally protected free speech.
tru dat
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digitalfreak @ 20th Aug 07:15PM:
Re: Sock puppets
LOL. Pot, kettle, black.
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digitalfreak @ 20th Aug 07:18PM:
Re: Responding to the astroturf charge
Hmm... Do as I say NOT as I do seems to be your philosophy as well.
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karlmarx @ 20th Aug 07:36PM:
Re: Responding to the astroturf charge
Where to start? So many places. Lets start with the fact that you freely ADMIT that your funding comes from companies who favor the status quo. Quid Pro Quo, is the word. You CAN'T say anything BAD about them, because they are the only way you get money.
The next confusing part, is you believe that competition is BETTER for the consumer, but as ANY economist will tell you, for ANY capital intensive project, the LOGICAL end result is, you guessed it, Monopoly. How did MA Bell come into existence? Government supported monopoly. What HAPPENED when we broke up Ma Bell? The CUSTOMER got 1000% better service, and 95& price breaks.
The current companies ARE a Monopoly/Duopoly in the VAST majority of the US. The fact that they invested (with LOTS of government subsidies, i.e. cable franchise monopoly), means that they are in a position to crush anyone who opposes them.
The SOLUTION, which you don't want to hear, is quite simple. NATIONALIZE the last mile infrastructure. Hell Nationalize the ENTIRE infrastructure. Most of Europe does that, and they have BETTER SERVICE, MORE SPEED, and LESS COST. Let the companies be shut down when the govt takes over all their assets, and let them become what they are advertising, ISP's. Break up the TV monopoly, and let every channel be sold on it's own. with enough bandwidth, there is NO REASON you could not have a-la-carte tv for everyone. Guess what, 90% of all tv channels would collapse, but TV today, to paraphrase, IS a VAST WASTELAND.
Free Press works FOR the customer, not the corporation. America SHOULD be made up of people, but our current lawmakers are beholden to the mighty dollar of the megacorps, thus NOT working in our best interest
--
The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity!
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openbox9 @ 20th Aug 07:39PM:
Re: Sock puppets
I realize that TK doesn't have many friends around this forum, but I haven't seen any references that he wishes to deny free speech to those who wish to exercise it.
I don't think the Free Press would catch nearly as much flak as they are if they didn't bury the identities of the contributors. If they're truly "Free", why not openly share everything?
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openbox9 @ 20th Aug 07:41PM:
Re: Sock puppets
Perhaps corporations shouldn't pay taxes to the government that helps ensure that constitutionally protected free speech. Why should US corporations not be entitled to free speech?
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hottboiinnc @ 20th Aug 07:47PM:
Re: Oh please...
Do you own ATT or TWC or WOW's network?
The answer is NO you do not, you only LEASE a small part of that network which they can kick you off of at any time they see fit.
By YOU and "FREE" Press and the "news leaders" at Stop The Cap and the rest of the BBR people claiming we need Net Neutrality you ARE stepping over the line with violating property rights. YOU DID NOT buy or build any of that network. Especially when it comes from TWC or WOW.
How would YOU like us to regulate your property? You can only water your lawn once per every three years? You can't mow your lawn during the days on the weekend but only after 9pm at night. But not past 9:30pm.
Stepping over the line much? YEP! The same you want to do with private companies.
Back up off them.
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anon @ 20th Aug 07:58PM:
OILY Koch Industries Sock Puppets
OILY Koch Industries wants to defeat Obama on Healthcare to weaken the Climate Bill, so they spend a fortune sneakily under fictitious names. Not only do they fund "Americans for Prosperity" but then "Americans for Prosperity" in turn funds 289 websites of assorted names puffing themselves up to look like a big crowd.
truthiest.blogspot.com/2009/08/koch-industries-astroturfing-against.html
AFP then is JoinPatientsNow.com and PatientsFirst.com and TAXPAYERMINUTE.COM, and HOTAIRTOUR.ORG, and defendingthedream.org, and rightonline.com...
Koch's also fund the Mad Hatter's Tea Party crowd, like the LEADED TEA PARTY (bring your guns) sponsored by MEDICAL Development Intl boss, AMERICANS FOR PROSPERTY FLORIDA CHAPTER Chairman. Don't say there's no connections between the Gun Nuts, the Tea Baggers, the Town Hall Health Care Disrupters, Astroturfers and OILY Koch Industries.
truthiest.blogspot.com/2009/08/tea-party-gun-nut-wants-armed-anti.html
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anon @ 20th Aug 08:22PM:
Re: so who is footing the bill?
Comcast has what, 46 MILLION customers....
So that 12.5 million per year lobbying budget divided by 46 million customers = 27 cents a year per customer or 2.25 cents per month.
Yeah, that adds a lot to the average customers bill....
They spend hundreds of times more than that on upgrades and programming every year.
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NormanS @ 20th Aug 08:06PM:
Re: The solution is a constitutional amendment
said by gorehound :
Money is the root of all evil.
Not true. At least get the concept right:
quote:
For the love of money is the root of all evil ...
Written by Paul, the Apostle, in his letter to Timothy.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
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TKJunkMail @ 20th Aug 08:25PM:
Re: Sock puppets
said by SLD :
I believe that corporations should not have Contitutionally protected free speech.
And I think they should.
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morbo @ 20th Aug 08:42PM:
Re: Oh please...
Jesus. What you miss is that net neutrality just ensures what the internet has been since its inception: a free place for all content providers to compete equally. Bring your connection and you are set. You can access any site you want and don't have to worry about bandwidth because YOU paid for your connection and the content provider has paid for their bandwidth. Dump pipe providers like AT&T or TWC still get their paying customers. They won't collapse. They just don't get to have a huge power grab by double dipping, essentially holding the internet hostage at their whim. You do know that's what this is about, right? The dumb pipes want more money, conveniently forgetting that they can raise internet prices whenever they see fit if they believe they need funds for upgrades or such.
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TKJunkMail @ 20th Aug 08:55PM:
Re: The solution is a constitutional amendment
said by SLD :
Thank you! I've been saying that this very issue is the root of nearly *all* evil in our political system, and if your suggestion is not followed by a reversal in the Supreme Court, it'll take our nation down with it.
Think about it, corporation reform will eliminate nearly every political problem you can think of.
Can you imagine how quickly we'd have universal healthcare if the corps weren't astroturfing or hiring big PR firms to fool people into believing it is bad for them?
Can you imagine if we had more than two choices for president because a corporation (Commission on Presidential Debates) wasn't forcing out 3rd party candidates?
Can you imagine how many choices we'd have for communications if large corps (ATT, Verizon, etc) were not allow to do this shit?
Can you imagine having a representative that was chosen by voters, not by corporate dollars?
And do you know what would change if you got what you wanted? Nothing; zip; nada. Because the PERSONS(real live persons) that own the stock in these corporations will still be able to buy the pols anyway.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
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KrK @ 20th Aug 09:07PM:
Re: Sock puppets
Honestly TK, anti-corporate hacks? It's not like these people are "anti-company" anything. FFS. So the way it works is if they AREN'T corporate shills then they are "Anti-Corporate" eh?
Seriously, I think you realize you come off as a corporate sock puppet yourself a lot... well except you're not paid for it. Not sure why, maybe you have a ton of stock in AT&T or something. At least you're consistent, I guess... but it's rhetoric.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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KrK @ 20th Aug 09:12PM:
Re: Sock puppets
said by sonicmerlin :
How about actually reading some of the things Free Press puts out?
Ignorance is one of the cornerstones of the recent "new right" ideology. You have to have labels and slogans to cling to rather then expose people to actual ideas and facts. Otherwise the sand would wash away and it would collapse.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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KrK @ 20th Aug 09:13PM:
Re: Sock puppets
And that just about perfectly sums it up. Like a hot knife through butter, You just cut through all the BS.
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KrK @ 20th Aug 09:15PM:
Re: Sock puppets
said by sonicmerlin :
Are you nuts? What about their ideology is 'nefarious'?
Well, he just described Teresa Heinz/Senator Kerry etc etc as "Sinistar." So what do we expect.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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hottboiinnc @ 20th Aug 09:17PM:
Re: Oh please...
TWC, VZ, and ATT have NOT raised Internet prices. Comcast hasn't either. Instead bandwidth goes UP! Speed has increased at least 100% since cable and DSL has come out and will keep going.
As far as not wanting to use them and their content. Go to the USDA and RUS and get some money. Start building out.
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KrK @ 20th Aug 09:18PM:
Re: Responding to the astroturf charge
said by Cleland :
From Scott Cleland, Chairman of Netcompetition.org, an eforum funded by broadband companies.
Ah, sounds like FreePress hit too close to home. His whole piece was "No I don't serve my master's agenda." Sure. You're a pillar of independant free thought. Of course however if you disagreed with their agenda in anyway, they wouldn't PAY YOU any more.
So congratulations, you're being a fully owned and operating spokeshole for their agenda. And you don't deny it. Tool. Your mission and purpose REALLY are fully transparent!
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
reply
KrK @ 20th Aug 09:27PM:
Re: Responding to the astroturf charge
You don't even have to nationalize the last mile. You could however create a new regulated monopoly that overseas the infrastructure and would be required to allow any and all comers to have equal access to consumers. Consumers would then vote (with their wallets) on who was the best (ISP... Content provider.... Data services provider.. etc etc).... not some geographically agreed upon boundary and non-competition agreement system like we have now.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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KrK @ 20th Aug 09:32PM:
Re: Sock puppets
said by openbox9 :
Why should US corporations not be entitled to free speech?
Well let me see.... HMM... maybe because.... they aren't a person? (GASP)
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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KrK @ 20th Aug 09:36PM:
Re: so who is footing the bill?
Missing the point, much? Those lobbying dollars ensure they can continue to control and monopolize their customers, blocking competition and choices, and the end result in the bills is that they can be who knows how many of dozens or hundreds of dollars too much.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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KrK @ 20th Aug 09:39PM:
Re: Bleh...
said by sonicmerlin :
The direction of a democratic country is not significantly influenced by its constituents, rather by those who are temporarily in power.
Actually I'd change that a bit.... I'd say it like this: The direction of a democratic country is not significantly influenced by its constituents, rather by those who are FUNDING those temporarily in power.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
reply
SLD @ 20th Aug 09:49PM:
Re: The solution is a constitutional amendment
Most people are not sociopaths. All corporations are.
Some people would have the ability to pay somewhat, but campaign finance laws limit much of it. But multinational corporations have many more resources available to provide free jets, teams of lawyers/lobbyist to hover over reps, astroturf, etc.
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morbo @ 20th Aug 10:38PM:
Re: Oh please...
your reply to my comment is inscrutable.
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joker5656 @ 20th Aug 10:40PM:
Re: Sock puppets
Guess I'll say it sense common sense hasn't came to the forfront. These foundations or whatever that fund the free press, well the evil corps that fund them (funding foundation) have no control over what they give money to. Not to mention most companies will give to both sides of the fence just so they can say they gave to (insert foundation/charity) here. It's all PR rights. Hell some may be moving money around tax free
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SuperWISP @ 20th Aug 10:42PM:
Re: Sock puppets
Free Press also receives substantial support from Google -- laundered, of course, through foundations. Google is the biggest puppetmaster of all, and Free Press, Public Knowledge, and the New America Foundation are dancing on its strings.
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KrK @ 20th Aug 10:42PM:
Re: Oh please...
Corporations regulate my property and rights every day.
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KrK @ 20th Aug 10:46PM:
Re: Sock puppets
Companies like Google give me some hope that some Corporations understand that's it's not always JUST about money. That sometimes there are other concerns in play. Then again, it could just be that the majority of their interests are aligned.... still, in no way are they "puppetmasters" of FreePress.
Now, if Google was pretty much the main source of funding you might have a point.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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KrK @ 20th Aug 10:49PM:
Re: Oh please...
said by Fox McCloud :
that said, the problem ultimately is from excessive governmental interference in being able to deploy wherever desired,
Uh huh. Look at Verizon and AT&T and Comcast and Cox and Time Warner etc etc tripping over themselves to deploy in each other's area.... only to be denied by the Government. OH WAIT. That isn't happening. NM.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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Desdinova @ 21st Aug 12:08AM:
Re: Sock puppets
"...staffed and funded by Teresa Heinz Kerry..." and "...their money comes directly from anti-corporate political hacks..."
One of the biggest (if not THE biggest) food products corporations in the world with sales approaching $10 billion dollars is anti-corporate?
Um, okay...
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pog @ 21st Aug 12:46AM:
Re: Sock puppets
Is this the Free Press you are interested in? »dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990_pdf···_990.pdf
--
My Site
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openbox9 @ 21st Aug 05:32AM:
Re: Sock puppets
So then the rest of the constitution and legal system shouldn't apply to corporations either?
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Eat Me @ 21st Aug 07:48AM:
Re: Sock puppets
said by sonicmerlin :
Irrationality blinds those from actually judging an ideology based on its logical merits. How about actually reading some of the things Free Press puts out?
You mean like how Congress reads the bills they vote on?
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Eat Me @ 21st Aug 07:51AM:
Re: Sock puppets
said by KrK :said by sonicmerlin :
How about actually reading some of the things Free Press puts out?
Ignorance is one of the cornerstones of the recent "new right" ideology. You have to have labels and slogans to cling to rather then expose people to actual ideas and facts. Otherwise the sand would wash away and it would collapse.
Of course. Ignorance is a rightwing thing that's why the democrats in Congress make sure that everyone has time to read the bills that your congresspeople and senators vote on.
Get a grip. Both parties are scum who misuse the political process for their own enrichment, or as part of some grand social experiment. If you really think that either party or all of these various "political non profit organizations" (now THERE is an oxymoron if I ever heard one) are interested in "the greater good" you're fooling yourself.
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Eat Me @ 21st Aug 07:54AM:
Re: Sock puppets
said by KrK :
Companies like Google give me some hope that some Corporations understand that's it's not always JUST about money. That sometimes there are other concerns in play. Then again, it could just be that the majority of their interests are aligned.... still, in no way are they "puppetmasters" of FreePress.
Now, if Google was pretty much the main source of funding you might have a point.
Google IS all about the money. They threw away their soul years ago, even before they decided to go public.
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Karl Bode @ 21st Aug 09:00AM:
Re: Responding to the astroturf charge
What's fairly amazing about Cleland is he's repeatedly brought before Congress to testify as an objective expert, despite simply being a paid PR agent for the phone companies.
The illusion of diverse opinions, when everybody's really on the payroll.
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oOOOo @ 21st Aug 09:16AM:
Re: Sock puppets
So basically, we should reorganize the world to suit your whims?
You might want to understand how the US economic system works, how the big evil corporations gainfully employ millions of people and how we are all - both people and corporate entities - interconnected by legal relationships.
You might want to understand how alternate economic systems have tried (and failed) to run by central planning.
You might want to develop an appreciation for how the mind-boggling legal entanglements do serve to keep us from descending into chaos.
That is, unless you thing the world should repeat every single mistake ever made ... just to save you the trouble of learning from history.
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Noah Vail @ 21st Aug 09:46AM:
Re: OILY Koch Industries Sock Puppets
Astroturf: an invented persona, used to hide the true id of one who spreads purposefully misleading information built on manipulated data.
Thanks, Know1 for bringing us a near perfect example, in the form of yourself.
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture.
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Karl Bode @ 21st Aug 09:59AM:
Re: Oh please...
TWC, VZ, and ATT have NOT raised Internet prices. Comcast hasn't either.
To be fair, prices in these days are increased via below the line fees, additional surcharges (having to pay to pay your bill in person), and other methods (soon to include caps and overages). And while above the line prices haven't risen, they haven't dropped either, despite ever cheapening bandwidth and hardware prices. We're one of the only countries that hasn't seen a recent drop in the price consumers pay for broadband...
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dda @ 21st Aug 11:07AM:
Re: Sock puppets
said by Karl Bode :
Much of their funding comes from individual donors and academics who really are simply interested in consumer rights and a transparent media.
But we don't know that since, respite their call for transparency and accountability, they don't release their funding list.
They spend money on lobbying and they pay their directors well (in the $80+K range), at least according to the posted 990 tax return for 2007. I didn't see any mention satan on their directors list but he could be using a pseudonym. :p
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TKJunkMail @ 21st Aug 11:29AM:
Re: Sock puppets
said by Desdinova :
"...staffed and funded by Teresa Heinz Kerry..." and "...their money comes directly from anti-corporate political hacks..."
One of the biggest (if not THE biggest) food products corporations in the world with sales approaching $10 billion dollars is anti-corporate?
Um, okay...
The money is HER personal money and it was her dead husband who inherited it and grew it. She just uses the inheritance to further the left wing anti-corporate rantings of Sen Kerry. So, yes anti-corporate, despite where the money initially came form.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
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viperlmw @ 21st Aug 11:50AM:
Re: Oh please...
said by hottboiinnc :
Do you own ATT or TWC or WOW's network?
The answer is NO you do not, you only LEASE a small part of that network which they can kick you off of at any time they see fit.
By YOU and "FREE" Press and the "news leaders" at Stop The Cap and the rest of the BBR people claiming we need Net Neutrality you ARE stepping over the line with violating property rights. YOU DID NOT buy or build any of that network. Especially when it comes from TWC or WOW.
How would YOU like us to regulate your property? You can only water your lawn once per every three years? You can't mow your lawn during the days on the weekend but only after 9pm at night. But not past 9:30pm.
Stepping over the line much? YEP! The same you want to do with private companies.
Back up off them.
I may not be a majority stockholder for those companies, but I do own some stock in them, so maybe yes, I do own them? Also, does my tax money being used to provide subsidies and franchise agreements count? Makes me think I should have SOME kind of say.
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viperlmw @ 21st Aug 12:02PM:
Re: OILY Koch Industries Sock Puppets
And exactly how did Know1 provide himself as an example of astroturfing? The poster doesn't appear to be working for someone else's agenda, and is spot on with the analysis of Koch Industries.
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anon @ 21st Aug 12:23PM:
Transparency and integrity
Good to see the discussion here. Free Press is happy to engage these Astroturf groups and coin-operated think tanks in a debate about conflicts of interest.
For too long, shady special interest money has polluted the waters of public discourse in America. Free Press is dedicated to a genuine debate from honest brokers. Paid shills who don't disclose their funding sources aren't good-faith actors. That's what we believe, and it's why we're calling them out now.
From its inception, our not-for-profit, public interest organization has taken no money from industry, industry groups, political parties or government.
We have held firm to that. Free Press is simply following IRS guidelines for nonprofits when we list the amounts but not the names of our donors on our 990 form. We do publish a list of our funders in the annual report, which is freely available on our Web site. This includes the Ford Foundation, the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, the Fidelity Charitable Gift Fund and more than 60 other charitable foundations.
We are also supported by more than 12,000 individual Free Press Action Fund members. The average size of an individual donation is $48. If you want to help the fight for public interest policies and an open Internet, go here: »www.freepress.net/donate
We have asked the Heartland Institute to reveal which industries and companies fund their efforts. They still refuse to name names, other than to say no single corporation or donor amounts to more than 5 percent of their total funding. So all we know is that they take money from a lot of corporations.
This is what we have gleaned from reporting requirements of some of these publicly-listed companies. Heartland has received checks from such Fortune 500 companies as Phillip Morris USA (to oppose research linking tobacco consumption to rising health care costs), ExxonMobil Corporation (to discredit scientific research linking global warming to man-made causes) and the phone and cable lobby (to attack Net Neutrality). This is just the tip of their Astroturf iceberg.
If Heartland we're truly interested in honest debate, they'd come clean about which companies paying their bills just happen to have a stake in the outcomes of their "research."
But don't hold your breath waiting for that.
Timothy Karr, Free Press
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NormanS @ 21st Aug 12:36PM:
Re: The solution is a constitutional amendment
said by SLD :
Most people are not sociopaths. All corporations are.
As are all governments.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
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hottboiinnc @ 21st Aug 12:53PM:
Re: Oh please...
Telco's charge to pay your bill in person. TWC does not. I pay my bill in person all the time. No fees at all. If i pay them using a Rep on the phone I would pay $2 for that time.
ATT charges $5+ for paying in person VZ does the same or at least did.
If we go by your bandwidth is cheaper point then POTS should be cheaper as well, as it gets cheaper to provide the service. Especially when CID costs 1cent per month for them to provide why do they charge $9+ for it?
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anon @ 21st Aug 01:28PM:
Re: Sock puppets
Hi Brett Glass,
Do you have any proof that FP takes any Google money? Which foundation?
While it is true that PK and New America do, FP makes a point of avoiding the stink of taint.
Isn't instead possible they believe in the policies they advocate for? Yes, on some things they are policies that google also supports, and that Brett Glass opposes, but that alone doesn't mean Google has any influence at all on FP. Many on these boards believe in things they are not paid to say, so it is possible that the folks at FP get foundation money, to you know, fight for the public interest.
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Karl Bode @ 21st Aug 01:25PM:
Re: Oh please...
If we go by your bandwidth is cheaper point then POTS should be cheaper as well
Yes, absolutely it should. It costs half a penny to provide callerID on a landline, but it costs something like what now, $9?
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viperlmw @ 21st Aug 01:50PM:
Re: The solution is a constitutional amendment
said by NormanS :said by SLD :
Most people are not sociopaths. All corporations are.
As are all governments.
:uhh: :uhh: :uhh:
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SLD @ 21st Aug 01:55PM:
Re: The solution is a constitutional amendment
Well, in that argument, at least the gov't is protecting the interests of their people. Corporations are protecting the interests of their shareholders. I won't get into gov't corruption since my base argument statest that the root of gov't corruption is corporate.
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SuperWISP @ 21st Aug 04:09PM:
Google and consumer groups
said by KrK :
Companies like Google give me some hope that some Corporations understand that's it's not always JUST about money.
If you're going to hold out that (probably vain) hope, Google certainly should not be the inspiration for it. Why? Recently, when a real consumer watchdog showed up, pointed out questionable lobbying activities on the part of Google, and called for greater transparency, what did Google do? Google wrote the group's largest contributors and tried to have the group's funding cut off. (Note that this was possible because the group, unlike Free Press, had nothing to hide and truly was transparent; unlike Free Press, it revealed the part of its IRS Form 990 that listed its funding sources.)
Google's actions are not exactly an example of sterling corporate citizenship.
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SuperWISP @ 21st Aug 04:13PM:
Re: Sock puppets
said by Zappa is Mad :
Do you have any proof that FP takes any Google money? Which foundation?
The Ford Foundation.
said by Zappa is Mad :
it is possible that the folks at FP get foundation money, to you know, fight for the public interest.
If that were true, Free Press would not be advocating against the public interest by trying to have the Internet regulated... in, not coincidentally, exactly the way that Google wants it regulated. You will never see Free Press disagree with Google's agenda on any policy issue.
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SuperWISP @ 21st Aug 04:16PM:
Re: Transparency and integrity
Free Press is the most blatant "astroturf" organization of all -- lobbying, along with its buddies at Public Knowledge and the New America Foundation, 100% for the agenda of Google.
What's more, since Free Press' lobbying budget exceeds that which can legally be spent on lobbying by a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization, it has done something interesting: it has formed a "shadow" organization, a 501(c)(4), called the "Free Press Action Fund." This "shadow" group has the same staff and is controlled by the same people, but because it is a (c)(4), it does not have the same restrictions and can (and does) spend millions to try to influence policy makers in DC. In short, it exists solely to get around the legal restrictions on lobbying by nonprofits. Not on the up and up, if you ask me.
What's more, Free Press has the audacity to "call the kettle black" by claiming that other groups are astroturfers. This is especially insidious.
Tim, if your organization is so lily white, then let's see the complete (not redacted) Forms 990 of both Free Press and the "Free Press Action Fund." You certainly have no right to claim to be in favor of transparency unless you do.
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NormanS @ 21st Aug 04:33PM:
Re: The solution is a constitutional amendment
said by SLD :
Well, in that argument, at least the gov't is protecting the interests of their people.
Really? It seems to me that the government protects the interests of those in power. In the U.S. that tends to be whomever corporate money can buy; so there isn't much difference between corporations and the government.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
reply
Tails @ 21st Aug 04:56PM:
Re: Bleh...
What can we do, seriously? I mean, just as an example, I don't agree with some things that Verizon Wireless charges for, but most of it is stuff I don't have any control over. I've filed a formal complaint, but how is that really going to help...?
--
Do or do not, there is no try! - Yoda
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SuperWISP @ 21st Aug 05:03PM:
Re: Sock puppets
said by TKJunkMail :
It would be nice for Free Press to show where THEIR funds come from.
Very true. What's more, the Forms 990 you cite above are only the half of it. Free Press also has a "shadow" organization called the "Free Press Action Fund." This group, which really isn't a separate organization because it's controlled by the same people, was formed to circumvent legal restrictions that prevent 501(c)(3) organizations from lobbying to influence policy. Free Press and its shadow group, taken together, have spent more on lobbying than Qwest.
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SuperWISP @ 21st Aug 05:04PM:
Re: Sock puppets
said by SLD :
I believe that corporations should not have Contitutionally protected free speech.
In that case, Free Press shouldn't either, because it is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit corporation.
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SuperWISP @ 21st Aug 05:08PM:
Re: Sock puppets
By the bye: It's worth noting that all of the foundations you've listed above are corporations. That's right; if Free Press takes money from even one of them (and that report says it does), it cannot claim that it does not take money from corporations.
reply
SLD @ 21st Aug 06:19PM:
Re: The solution is a constitutional amendment
Now you are repeating my argument, you'll notice if you re-read.
reply
SLD @ 21st Aug 06:20PM:
Re: Sock puppets
Perhaps not.
reply
NormanS @ 21st Aug 06:49PM:
Re: The solution is a constitutional amendment
Eh? I am saying that government doesn't have the people's interests at heart. Government isn't our Savior. Never has been. Not since the days of Mesopotamia. Whether they've been the tools of corporations, or megalomaniacial potentates, governments have been the tools of oppression. Maybe three times, in the history of the west (Greek Democracy, Roman Republic, American Republic) the people actually wrested control of government from whatever vested interests were in charge at the time. In each case, the freedom lasted, perhaps, five generations.
We now have our own bloody Caesar; Barackius Obamus. It is all downhill from now on.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
reply
KrK @ 21st Aug 06:50PM:
Re: Sock puppets
Notice I didn't say "Conservative" or even "Right Wing" but the "New Right."
I'm talking about the people, that as soon as you been to counter their points, merely increase the volume in which they yell "Socialism", "Liberals", and other slogans.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
reply
KrK @ 21st Aug 06:52PM:
Re: Sock puppets
Sorry, I don't view Senator Kerry as some left wing loon who is anti-corporate. Not at all.
reply
KrK @ 21st Aug 06:55PM:
Re: Sock puppets
Nothing you said (flamed) added one iota of truth or enlightenment to the issue at hand. Congratulations.
reply
Dampier @ 21st Aug 09:16PM:
Re: Transparency and integrity
said by SuperWISP :
Free Press is the most blatant "astroturf" organization of all -- lobbying, along with its buddies at Public Knowledge and the New America Foundation, 100% for the agenda of Google.
What's more, since Free Press' lobbying budget exceeds that which can legally be spent on lobbying by a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization, it has done something interesting: it has formed a "shadow" organization, a 501(c)(4), called the "Free Press Action Fund." This "shadow" group has the same staff and is controlled by the same people, but because it is a (c)(4), it does not have the same restrictions and can (and does) spend millions to try to influence policy makers in DC. In short, it exists solely to get around the legal restrictions on lobbying by nonprofits. Not on the up and up, if you ask me.
Here we go again. "Blatant" is certainly in the eye of the beholder, particularly when comparing Free Press with, say, Americans for Prosperity or FreedomWorks, among others.
I keep seeing the charge that Free Press is supposedly a shadow lobbyist for Google, but no evidence. Someone in this thread suggested the Ford Foundation was the magical link (in between the ACORN and George Soros-like nonsense). Since when has the Ford Foundation become a Google lackey? Sounds like someone just picked one group off the list and said, "here's the proof."
Call me unconvinced.
The names of the biggest and most recognizable funders of Free Press, amongst the thousands of ordinary consumers who feel just under $50 isn't too much to ask to fight for their interests, are all there as Tim Karr noted.
I don't see a self-interested corporate donor among them.
That's not the case for the opposition. This stuff used to be "inside the beltway secret" but those days are over. AT&T and other big telecom special interests hire a K Street PR firm who in turn builds and funds a propaganda lobbying festival, with the whole dog and pony show of "independent" research groups commissioned to produce studies that magically coincide with the agenda at hand (which they then use in Congress and in their other PR efforts to "prove" their case.) They create "consumer group" websites and groups which are nothing more than astroturfing, hoodwinking consumers into fighting against their own best interests. They hire "names" from the industry who sell their reputation to the PR effort.
What they don't do is ever reveal the direct link between the corporate financing -> PR firm -> laundered to the astroturfers.
It was LOL funny to read the Heartland Institute's take on why they won't reveal their funding:
"By not disclosing our donors, we keep the focus on the issue."
Mr. Magoo-like focus.
One of these people just argued on HuffPost that it's not important where the money comes from, only the ideas.
Really?
Then if it's not important, why the obfuscation? Do they really think we're that stupid to think that an AT&T-funded operation promoting AT&T's agenda on a website that purports to be "a consumer grassroots effort" might not make consumers think twice about the real agenda?
Free Press' agenda is straightforward. It's not to turn the world over to Google - it's to provide representation for the one group always left out when "inside the beltway" groups battle over public policy - consumers.
The record is there.
Heartland Institute and other astroturfers can't fight that record with high-minded debate on the merits, so instead they throw around wild-eyed charges like Heartland Institute's "expose" of the deep, dark, SOCIALIST agenda of Free Press.
I thought red baiting went out in the 1950s.
If this was the intellectual debating depth of Heartland, to throw around the "S" word and call it a day, someone isn't getting their money's worth.
The only thing these corporate astroturfers really have going for them is a blizzard of cash, which unfortunately causes sparkles in the eyes of too many elected officials who will sign on their agenda, right up until their constituents find out.
That's what is truly insidious.
--
Phillip M. Dampier
Editor, Stop the Cap!
»stopthecap.com
reply
SLD @ 22nd Aug 12:55AM:
Re: The solution is a constitutional amendment
LOL... a bit dramatic, wasn't that?
reply
SuperWISP @ 22nd Aug 10:14PM:
Re: Transparency and integrity
said by Dampier :
The names of the biggest and most recognizable funders of Free Press, amongst the thousands of ordinary consumers who feel just under $50 isn't too much to ask to fight for their interests, are all there as Tim Karr noted.
I don't see a self-interested corporate donor among them.
You can't. Because Free Press won't reveal who they are. Did Google CEO Eric Schmidt give millions of Googlebucks to them as a supposed "individual" donor, as he did with the New America Foundation? We can't tell, because Free Press won't reveal even the list of donors that appears on its IRS Form 990. We do, however, know that Free Press is flouting the law limiting lobbying by nonprofits and is spending millions of dollars lobbying for legislation that is bad for consumers but good for Google. We also know that Google is just the sort of corporation that would hand big bucks to a foundation, with a wink and a nod, and say, "Keep a little of this for yourself and pass the rest on to Free Press." Seeing the complete Forms 990 for both Free Press and its "shadow" organization, the Free Press Action Fund, would help people to follow the money trail -- and this is the only conceivable reason why FP, which claims to be in favor of transparency and deplores the Heartland Institute's lack thereof just above, will not reveal it.
said by Dampier :
Free Press' agenda is straightforward. It's not to turn the world over to Google - it's to provide representation for the one group always left out when "inside the beltway" groups battle over public policy - consumers.
The record is there.
No, the record is not there. Again, Free Press will not reveal its donors.
And Free Press is most certainly not representing consumers. Do consumers really want lower quality Internet service? Fewer choices of ISPs? To pay more for less? I don't think so -- and yet, these things would be the direct results of the legislation for which Free Press is lobbying on behalf of Google.
Free Press is, however, attempting to misinform consumers via its alarmist "Save the Internet" Web site.
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