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RadioDoc @ 3rd Mar 08:00PM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
I guess since you have nothing legitimate to say you resort to the usual lame "fanboy" crap.
As for your disregard for reality, that's a curious troll. Covad will gladly sell you "naked DSL". It costs more because Covad has to lease the loop, but hey, you'll be "naked".
Where is "Fleeting", anyway? Must suck to live there. Over here in the real world, my DSL + phone line costs less today than it did six years ago, and the speed is eight times faster.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.
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anon @ 3rd Mar 08:01PM:
The trend is up...
The trend is up.. speeds will increase, but so will prices. There will not be (unfortunately) $50 100/100megabit internet access widely available in the U.S.A., land of the MPAA and RIAA with millions of internet savy kiddies running around like gremlins poking their head into any media they can get their little hands on..
:-)
Just reflects the reality of it all.
Heres the current kicker on competition, telcos are waiting for cablecos to make the next 'big move', until then telcos are content to stand-pat with 30megabits or less. So unless cable goes to 50mb or higher, telcos do nothing.
Keep in mind, the market has to want whatever speed/price are offered for that speed for it to make sense and create a 'war', if you will..
but: I'm perfectly willing to take all the free upgrades they can offer!
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Minister @ 3rd Mar 08:06PM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
quote:
you resort to the usual lame "fanboy" crap
No hard feelings, mate. If it quacks like a duck....quote:
Covad will gladly sell you "naked DSL". It costs more because Covad has to lease the loop, but hey, you'll be "naked".
No. I want it from SBC/AT&T. Justify why I can't have DSL with no phone component. Also tell me why POTS prices are rising.quote:
Over here in the real world, my DSL + phone line costs less today than it did six years ago, and the speed is eight times faster.
Very scientific analysis, but the fact DSL has gotten cheaper isn't being debated. Your statement does not discredit the TIA numbers that say on average, consumer DSL prices are moving at best - laterally of late.
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RadioDoc @ 3rd Mar 08:37PM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
Still trying to decide what you quack like...
Why should SBCATTVERZONWHATEVER sell you anything just because you "want" it from them? What you want is available, but you evidently are allergic to CLECs. Too bad for you. I guess you get cranky when you can't buy computer parts at Wal*Mart, because you "want" them sold there.
The only analysis that counts is what's happening in the market. The TIA can do whatever it wants with it's numbers, my bill is all that matters to me (and anyone else who isn't just arguing to be see their words on the screen).
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.
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Minister @ 3rd Mar 08:45PM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
quote:
Why should SBCATTVERZONWHATEVER sell you anything just because you "want" it from them?
You do everything but actually answer my questions. Why can't I get DSL with no phone component from AT&T? Why is the average cost of a POTS line rising?quote:
The only analysis that counts is what's happening in the market.
No doubt, and what's happening in the market, according to TIA numbers, is that the average cost of the price paid for a DSL line is moving laterally.
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NormanS @ 3rd Mar 09:09PM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
said by djrobx :
Bundled service can't be included in the argument because some cable companies (Comcast is the most notorious) charge significantly more or give less speed, practically forcing you to buy basic cable with a cablemodem.
Kind of like having to get POTS to get DSL? SBC does not, yet, offer "dry DSL".
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
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J D McDorce @ 3rd Mar 09:20PM:
Re: Prices aren't going up
I don't know about averages and such, but I haven't seen an increase in my POTS bill in years and the last change in my POTS + DSL was a $50/month reduction two years ago. I'm actually paying over $50/month less now for POTS + DSL than I was paying for POTS + Dial-up in the late '90's. Maybe it isn't going down, but it isn't going up either.
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hitachi369 @ 3rd Mar 10:22PM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
said by Minister :
Why can't I get DSL with no phone component from AT&T?
Because they don't offer it.
--
Please view the Hitachi3694MVM page at http://mvm4.hitachi369.com
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Bradmph @ 3rd Mar 10:43PM:
Re: The trend is up...
Ahhh just go climb the pole and cut some insulation off and point the ole dish and antenna amp at it while it leaks all over the neighborhood, lol.:p
Brad
"Waiting for my government grant
for round pixel research"
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aurgathor @ 3rd Mar 10:49PM:
I just don't see a DSL price increase
The first price I remember was $39 for 768 DL from VZ.
Later, that went up to $49, same speed.
Then it dropped to $39, still 768, though UL may have been decreased to 128 (I think it was 256 before)
At that time I got DSL from Covad, for $35, but only 384/128
Then VZ increased speed and lowered prices, so I jumped ship, and now I pay VZ $29 for 1.5/384.
I think last year they increased speed, so people lucky to live close to their COs, can get 3.0/768 for the same amount. (I tried, but I live too far)
I don't know the prices in other areas, or the cable prices, but I see a definite drop here in price and increase in speed. VZ also have that $15 or so low-speed, dialup buster DSL.
Note, actual VZ prices are somewhat higher due to taxes, fees, spare change, etc.
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Fishie @ 3rd Mar 11:50PM:
Re: Stand Alone Cable
I don't have cable TV. Charter out here offers almost $70/month for just the internet with no TV.
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cdigioia @ 3rd Mar 11:51PM:
Re: Prices aren't going up
said by Minister :
You're arguing the difference of an increase in pennies to the difference in the decrease in pennies. The fact remains the average price paid by consumers for DSL is not dropping.
Agreed, as I stated in my subject line "Price aren't going up". There's a big difference between stable and going up.
And Price per kbit/sec IS going way down for consumers. Take one's montly bill, divided by their kbit/sec connection speed. You really think that isn't going down?
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dvd536 @ 4th Mar 01:09AM:
Re: Stand Alone Cable
new yorkers get gouged on everything there. look at the price of cigarettes. they're like $8.50 a pack or more.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth
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NormanS @ 4th Mar 02:17AM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
said by Minister :
As for your disregard of naked DSL, that's a curious argument. I should pay for a landline I don't need because it helps maintain the wires? :uhh:
I should pay for basic TV because it helps maintain the wires? Comcast will charge me more for the same cable HSI because I have satellite TV, and, thus, no need for cable TV.
Comcast month-to-month, CATV: $42.95 per month
Comcast month-to-month, no CATV: $56.95 per month
As for DSL prices, my month-to-month price for the Express package (1536/384) was $39.95 when I started, going to $49.95 a year later. It stayed at $49.95 per month (though I re-rated for a lower price) until last fall. It is now $19.99 per month (though I am paying $19.95 per month) with the opportunity to upgrade to Pro (3008/512) for a $17.99 per month rate for twelve months, rising to a month-to-month rate of $29.99 per month; just $3.00 per month more than I was paying for the Express DSL package two years ago.
<facetious>
No, I suppose DSL prices are not now lower than they were either five years ago, when I signed up, or two years ago, when I was paying $13.00 less than my first year on DSL. My bill just keeps on going up, and up, and up...
</facetious>
Five years ago: $39.95 per month, month-to-month
Four years ago: $49.95 per month, month-to-month[1]
One year ago: $26.95 per month, month-to-month[2]
Now: $19.99 per month, month-to-month
Note[2]: I am paying $19.95 per month on a twelve month contract, with an option to upgrade from Express (1536/384) to Pro (3008/512) for a twelve month contract rate of $17.99 per month, rising to $29.99 per month at the end of the year.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
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jap @ 4th Mar 02:19AM:
Re: Stand Alone Cable
said by Fishie :
Charter out here offers almost $70/month for just the internet with no TV.
Adelphia standalone @6000/768 = 60$ here in NH. Just dumped it for VZ 3000/768 for 30$. I'll miss the down speed on occassion, but not 30$/mo worth of missing. VZ should be more stable: I can see the CO from my kitchen window. With my glasses off.
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YOUR_UGLY_VT @ 4th Mar 03:38AM:
Charter
Charter still has the same speeds so the same price.
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superht1 @ 4th Mar 10:40AM:
Re: Stand Alone Cable
said by dvd536 :
new yorkers get gouged on everything there. look at the price of cigarettes. they're like $8.50 a pack or more.
OK.. That's offtopic.
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superht1 @ 4th Mar 10:41AM:
Re: It's not a Price war it's a Market Share war.
It's a peons war, who get the most win?
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Minister @ 4th Mar 11:13AM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
quote:
Because they don't offer it.
No kidding. Why not?
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hitachi369 @ 4th Mar 11:14AM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
said by Minister : quote:
Because they don't offer it.
No kidding. Why not?
Demand? Your guess is as good as mine.
--
Please view the Hitachi3694MVM page at http://mvm4.hitachi369.com
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Minister @ 4th Mar 11:22AM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
quote:
should pay for basic TV because it helps maintain the wires? Comcast will charge me more for the same cable HSI because I have satellite TV, and, thus, no need for cable TV.
I don't support cable's inane bundling and pricing policies either, so I'm not sure where you're going with that. quote:
No, I suppose DSL prices are not now lower than they were either five years ago, when I signed up, or two years ago, when I was paying $13.00 less than my first year on DSL. My bill just keeps on going up, and up, and up...
Again, the point that DSL prices have gotten lower over half-a-decade is not being contested. It's the fact that from 2005-2006, DSL costs are moving laterally according to the industry's own numbers, despite these intro-prices I find interesting.
Maybe you can also answer why the average cost of a POTS line, which you omit from your calculations for presentation's sake, is rising?
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Minister @ 4th Mar 11:27AM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
Unlikely it's demand. Many customers want to go cell or VoIP only. I'd bet it's simply the result of some exec's number crunching session on how best to get maximum revenue from the customer.
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hitachi369 @ 4th Mar 11:37AM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
said by Minister :
Unlikely it's demand. Many customers want to go cell or VoIP only. I'd bet it's simply the result of some exec's number crunching session on how best to get maximum revenue from the customer.
Many? I don't know high that number is, most of there customers couldn't imagine themselves without a land line.
Being on DSLR or other tech forum kinda blinds you to what the masses want. Ask your mom or dad if they would be happy with only a data plan from SBC, they prolly wouldn't even know what you are talking about.
Not working in the tech field I know about 0% of my coworkers would want something like that, nor any of my immediate family. The only people that would want it are tech savvy people, so either the younger crowd, ie small percentage, or tech people, again a small slice of there user pie.
I wouldn't even want a data only plan, as the >20 dollars I might save would be negated by any voip I would set up or increased usage of my cell phone.
--
Please view the Hitachi3694MVM page at http://mvm4.hitachi369.com
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Minister @ 4th Mar 11:51AM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
quote:
Not working in the tech field I know about 0% of my coworkers would want something like that, nor any of my immediate family. The only people that would want it are tech savvy people
I disagree. The stats show the landline is (albeit slowly) dying, and customers are slowly moving to cell or VoIP only. Look at the explosive growth of cable VoIP in 2005. Look at projected numbers in 2006. Those folks are not keeping their landline. Millions of them. It's clearly a trend.
I think the number crunchers at the telcos are sucking the revenue from this forced bundling to help inflate dying landline revenue numbers until they can get their own VoIP (and video) operations up and running, effectively offering their own triple play.
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hitachi369 @ 4th Mar 12:02PM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
said by Minister : quote:
Not working in the tech field I know about 0% of my coworkers would want something like that, nor any of my immediate family. The only people that would want it are tech savvy people
I disagree. The stats show the landline is (albeit slowly) dying, and customers are slowly moving to cell or VoIP only.
I think the number crunchers are sucking the revenue from this forced bundling to help inflate dying landline revenue numbers until they can get their own VoIP operations up and running.
I agree that a land line is slowly dieing, however the cost saving only applies to those people who make an ungodly amount of calls.
IDK, I must be the minority not being glued to my phone 24/7. We pay >20 on our land line, less than what we would with VOIP. If I used my cell phone, which service is spotty I would have to get a new plan which in turn would up my cost even more. Lose-Lose for the people who don't make alot of calls.
--
Please view the Hitachi3694MVM page at http://mvm4.hitachi369.com
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NormanS @ 4th Mar 01:09PM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
said by Minister :
Maybe you can also answer why the average cost of a POTS line, which you omit from your calculations for presentation's sake, is rising?
I haven't seen an increase. Maybe it is those pesky, nickle-and-dime government mandated fees? Every time I turn around, the government wants to take more of my money. My dad use to say, "If the Founding Fathers thought taxation without representation was bad, they should see what taxation with representation looks like".
OTOH, where are cable TV fess going? I haven't looked at those because we don't have cable TV. People should keep in mind, on cable there is TV and HSI, on the telco copper there is POTS and HSI. Cable and POTS are one kind of service, and the rational for the existence of the plant. HSI, wither cable, or DSL, rides on that plant.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
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Minister @ 4th Mar 03:12PM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
quote:
Maybe it is those pesky, nickle-and-dime government mandated fees?
If you research, the Regulatory recovery fee isn't government mandated. The USF fee you pay really just goes into a muddy fund, which the telcos pull back out of it. If you really dig and do your researh, you'll find that most of the fees and various surcharges are pure profit.
Now that Cable is an information service that will likely pay into the USF, I'll bet broadband cable rates actually increase further. Of course cable TV rates continue to hike because there is not ample competition, something that hopefully can be helped by telco IPTV deployment, but I'm not holding my breath.
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NormanS @ 4th Mar 07:27PM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
said by Minister :
If you research, the Regulatory recovery fee isn't government mandated.
Last time I checked, FUSF was on the DSL side of the bill; but you were asking me to explain a rise in price on the POTS side of the bill, where there is an array of government mandated fees.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
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anon @ 5th Mar 06:51AM:
On FeyeOs
Aren't FCC surcharges for POTS over FIOS kind of obsolete?
I'm still wonderning why RBOCS still should 'collect' fees such as:
(local)
FCC Line Charge $6.40
911 Surcharge $ .35
NYS/Local Tax $ .63
Fed Tax $ .22
Fed/USF Charge $ .66
Surcharges(misc)$ .23
(optional services)
USF Long Dist $1.05
Surcharges(misc)$1.26
FederalTax $1.01
NYS/Localtax $2.90
------------------------
Grand toal $14.71 in taxes fees and surcharges. Now you can't generalize my fees b/c I lowered my Vzfreedom plan ($54.95 to $34.95 and these are prorated taxes/fees (some of them based upon the price charges)
Under the old service level (same price as some VOIP plans) the taxes and fees were nearing $19!! I'm sorry but that's insanity when you can buy a complete (taxes included) phone line for that price!
Now some of these taxes/fees/surcharges are cheaper out of NY metro too, (yes we get humped by taxes here bigtime).
A brodband war can not be fought with a 900 pounds worth of piggybank surcharges, taxes and fees in POTS, as part of a bundle. I personally think the fcc line charge should be eliminated when you bundle phone with broadband or tv.
Verizon's 35/35/35 triple play won't cut it when $14 of taxes/surcharges bring the bill to $120 and your only getting 5/2, not 15/2 with OOL. Is it just me? Or doesn't this not sense.. Even if the FIOS broadband is reasonable QOS, price trumps quality when there's that much of a difference, no?
Day-O, Day-OOOOO, Daylight come, and me wan go VOIP.
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FastiBook @ 5th Mar 12:15PM:
Crazy
It's Crazy Ernie's Circus of Total Bundle Madness. Intro prices without promo's and bundle incentives = what we need. If that means even LOWER costs WITH bundles, then hey, what's taking so long? Another thing that needs to be axed is the customer's federal recovery fee. IF a company wants to do something that incurrs a federal fee, you don't pass it on to the customer unless you can't afford it!!!!!!!!!!! Psh. I pay 20 dollars a month in taxes and fees on my cell phone!! WHat the hell is wrong with these people! Psh. Stuff needs to change, and quickly. Wake up washington!!!
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Minister @ 5th Mar 06:10PM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
quote:
Last time I checked, FUSF was on the DSL side of the bill; but you were asking me to explain a rise in price on the POTS side of the bill, where there is an array of government mandated fees.
Most of which, if you spend time studying and searhing, you'll find wind up right back in the telco pocket. That doesn't include "line maintenance" fees and other nonsense for decdes old copper technology that costs very little to provide....
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NormanS @ 5th Mar 06:53PM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
You are one stubborn...
The point is that the fees I refer to are government mandated. That the telcos own the elected officials who favor them with government breaks is another argument, entirely.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
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thehinge @ 8th Mar 06:33PM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
Where do you pay $99.00 for a Comcast HSI install, Norman? I think a CAE made a mistake. I have only seen a 49.00 install fee, tops, for HSI with any promotional price in the Philly market. It's 24.00 if a tech installs cable tv, too. Call Comcast and ask if that's the correct install fee.
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Minister @ 8th Mar 09:26PM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
quote:
You are one stubborn...
The point is that the fees I refer to are government mandated. That the telcos own the elected officials who favor them with government breaks is another argument, entirely.
No, it is not. You need to spend some time researching the reality of the different fees on your phone bill, and not just believing what the company tells you.
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NormanS @ 8th Mar 10:42PM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
said by thehinge :
Where do you pay $99.00 for a Comcast HSI install, Norman? I think a CAE made a mistake. I have only seen a 49.00 install fee, tops, for HSI with any promotional price in the Philly market. It's 24.00 if a tech installs cable tv, too. Call Comcast and ask if that's the correct install fee.
I found it on the Comcast site. I just followed the links to order cable HSI. Until I hit a snag. See the screen shots...
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
.jpg/thumb.jpg "82014 bytes")
Figure 1. |
.jpg/thumb.jpg "105714 bytes")
Figure 2. |
.jpg/thumb.jpg "137086 bytes")
Figure 3. |
NormanS @ 8th Mar 11:10PM:
Re: DSL rates going up? I just don't see it.
said by Minister :
No, it is not. You need to spend some time researching the reality of the different fees on your phone bill, and not just believing what the company tells you.
"No it is not"? What is "it"?
quote:
Surcharges and Other Fees
1-06 Federal Subscriber Line Charge 4.38
1-07 Rate Surcharge .14-
1-08 State Regulatory Fee .01
1-09 Federal Universal Service Fee .44
Total Surcharges and Other Fees 4.69
Government Fees and Taxes
1-10 CA High Cost Fund Surcharge - A: .03
1-11 CA High Cost Fund Surcharge - B: .28
1-12 California Teleconnect Fund Surcharge .02
1-13 Universal Lifeline Telephone Service Surcharge .17
1-14 Local Government Fee 1.75
1-16 9-1-1 Emergency System .07
1-17 Federal .48
1-18 Local .57
From my latest telephone bill. Please pay attention. There is a section labeled, "Government Fees and Taxes". Are you telling me that those are a blatant SBC lie? They actually lie on a legal document? I wonder if the CPUC knows about this?
The very first link is to an FCC web page which explains which fees are government mandated, which should be passed on, and so forth. Some, such as the FUSF, are not mandated, others are. Those links to the CPUC site are definitely government mandated. Those fees listed under "Government Fees and Taxes" are either government mandated, or an SBC lie. Somehow, I suspect that the CPUC would have said something about it if SBC were to lie about fees and taxes directly on the bill.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
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There Is No Broadband 'Price War' - DSL rates, Cable rates, remain unchanged