Video Sites Not Sweating New Comcast Cap - Though they all admit they're bad for consumers...
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Video Sites Not Sweating New Comcast Cap
Though they all admit they're bad for consumers...
04:25PM Thursday Oct 02 2008 by Karl Bode
tags: business · bandwidth · cable
Tipped by TK Junk Mail
With Comcast officially launching their new 250GB monthly cap this week, PC Magazine chats up several online video outfits and finds that while most agree the move hurts consumers, none seem particularly worried about this being a business breaker, given the size of the cap. Veoh says they already operate in markets with caps, and they still see strong growth. Netflix, whose broadband delivery platform is a company priority, also puts on a brave face:
"The bottom line on the Comcast issue is, we believe the important thing for all cable companies to do is be transparent with their customers," said Steve Swasey, a spokesman for Netflix. "As far as this 250 GB cap, it would take you eight hours of watching content on the Internet, not just from Netflix but YouTube or Amazon or Apple or anybody else, eight hours a day, seven days a week to reach that cap, so it is pretty high."
Their tune would likely change should Time Warner Cable expand their trials in Texas, which feature caps ranging from 5-40GB and include $1 per GB overage fees. Or once DSL provider Frontier implements their 5GB cap for all users this Winter. As previously argued, this really is less about whether 250GB is generous, and more about what kind of pricing models this opens the door to down the line.

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Camelot One @ 2nd Oct 04:29PM:
It's not all bad

I am in no way a fan of caps.
That said, for the right price 250Gb per month does sound reasonable. Not desirable, but reasonable.

But 5-40Gb per month is a flat out scam.
--
Intel Q6600 @3400Mhz/GA-EP35-DS3P/2x 2048Mb G.Skill/Seagate 750.10/EVGA 8800GT's SLI/Silverstone 850W/Custom water cooler
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sousademiami @ 2nd Oct 04:34PM:
Re: It's not all bad

I agree, it is not a bad deal...now. But this sets a precedent. Now they can continue to raise speeds, and as content evolves and consumes more bandwidth, the cap becomes less reasonable, but also, they can use it as an excuse to raise rates.

Maybe in a couple years they decide...if you want to move up to 400GB per month, that'll be another $10 per month. But in that same time period their cost per GB has dropped.

I think it's just a scam the same way text messages are a scam. It's just that Comcast is starting with large caps so that when they are screwing you, you won't realize it.

Not to mention we're still waiting on that mystical tool that will track our consumption that the Comcast fanboys keep spouting off about.
--
OASAASLLS
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blips @ 2nd Oct 04:41PM:
.

"You give them an inch...and they take a mile"

The 250GB cap is the inch.

Wait until they take a mile.
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thevorpal @ 2nd Oct 04:43PM:
Not sweating it. Yet.

The Comcast Cap is at a reasonable amount such that the majority of their customers would not be impacted by it, and others who are using that much data should probably evaluate getting a dedicated line with some guarantees of service.

For now.

However, my issue with the Comcast caps is that they are implemented in such a way that it becomes punitive to exceed them. I would even prefer a lower cap, with a modestly priced metered service above that limit. Because of Comcasts dominant market position, we need to make sure that if they implement a cap, it scales at the same rate as their customers data usage, otherwise we could see some significant 'ghetto'-like areas of internet access develop.

Would you want to move into an area that was served by a single broadband provider that had a cap with severe overage penalties? It would be hard to put pressure on a company in such markets as the initial startup costs would be high, and damage to the economy would not be directly attributable to high internet prices.

That said, I'd love a truely metered service that came with actual guarantees of service.
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hottboiinnc @ 2nd Oct 04:56PM:
Re: Not sweating it. Yet.

There is no way to ensure that the cap will increase. If you don't like the way they operate their business I suggest you expand your "network" farther. Or do as I said before go into the DSL market.

and as far as "if they implement the cap" its already been done. The cap was placed into affect this week. Actually I believe it was the 1st. You're a little late for that.

And nothing is guaranteed anymore.

And if you want tiered access- move to Canada or the be the first in the USA to put it out there and offer it.
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iansltx @ 2nd Oct 05:11PM:
Re: Not sweating it. Yet.

Granted, Comcast's cap is huge compared with Cox, TWC, Frontier etc. However wat's not so great is the fact that if you go over the cap, your service gets cut off after one warning. If you're under the cap, you don't get money back for this.

So Comcast has a "base rate" of $43/month, $33/month on promos, sometimes even lower. So instead of charging for extra speed, how about charging for bandwidth, at 10 cents per gig. Granted, that would land $63/month internet service at 200GB after the promo, however if you wanted to use 300GB it'd be no sweat off of anyone's back.

Also, for video you might not see a problem, at least for standard-def, but doing online backup, photo sharing and video is another story. Especially if the video is HD; which runs around 2GB per hour for the really igh qality stuff, 1GB per hour for normally available stuff.
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Corydon @ 2nd Oct 05:25PM:
Re: It's not all bad

The one caveat is that the 250 GB cap must rise year over year or it will very quickly become unreasonable.

We'll see if Comcast chooses to do that or not. If they do keep raising the cap so that the overwhelming majority of their customers never experience it, then I'm completely fine with it.
--
"Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too."
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SilverSurfer @ 2nd Oct 05:27PM:
Still Not Drinking the Koolaid

Caps are bullshit. Period. It is nothing more than a way to get subscribers used to the idea of billing by the byte. 250 gigs seems gargantuan now to the people who still only use their Internet service to check email and the weather but the power users today will be the standard subscriber tomorrow. Caps/overages are just to pave the way for excessive price hikes/overage fees.
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FunnyBones @ 2nd Oct 05:28PM:
rich get richer

This is all about money and bottom line is corrupt people want more money and they will do what ever they need to make a buck. Just look at the 700 billion dollar bail out....
--
Are you part of the cattle?
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rob27 @ 2nd Oct 05:28PM:
business class

they want more uses to switch to business class. why have a residential class anymore when it's limited. especially if your streaming audio 24/7 to three sources 250GB can fill up REAL QUICK!

-Rob
--
»www.cband.info A great way to pass the time! Interactive (IRC) radio you won't find elsewhere!
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pspcrazy @ 2nd Oct 05:31PM:
Re: Still Not Drinking the Koolaid

I totally agree with more, too many people only see TODAY, rather then seeing TOMORROW. When we need the increase in bandwidth these companies will simply take their sweet time to up their caps like the cellphone companies are doing with their caps at the moment. Not to mention if you using your caps normally during peak times you speeds will STILL be lowered, choose one or the other sheesh.
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thevorpal @ 2nd Oct 05:31PM:
Re: Not sweating it. Yet.

said by hottboiinnc :

There is no way to ensure that the cap will increase.
Of course there is, it is called a plan to observe trends in usage, review their metrics regarding link utilization, and plan accordingly. Comcast is doing that now.

Median values for data usage in terms of bulk volume is increasing every year.

As for "no way to ensure the cap will increase", from a business perspective, Comcast will need to figure out a way to increase the cap if their projected utilization in the next 5-10 years exceeds their current cap.

This is especially true for Comcast, which has significant portions of its market at risk due to competition from Verizon FIOS.

If you don't like the way they operate their business I suggest you expand your "network" farther. Or do as I said before go into the DSL market.
Oh I see, you are angry because you disagree with my opinions in the other thread. Therefore you are being combative in this thread and ignoring the actual content of my post and instead hoping to latch onto semantic issues and ignoring the actual premise of the discussion.

and as far as "if they implement the cap" its already been done. The cap was placed into affect this week. Actually I believe it was the 1st. You're a little late for that.
Semantics. I'm discussing concerns that Comcast should have, and potential issues that they would be fools to ignore as they plan for the future.

And nothing is guaranteed anymore.
It is called a Service Level Agreement.

And if you want tiered access- move to Canada or the be the first in the USA to put it out there and offer it.
What I would want, is for you to read and respond to my posts in a non-hostile manner.
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nasadude @ 2nd Oct 05:45PM:
Re: Still Not Drinking the Koolaid

I third the motion.

all in agreement say aye....the motion is passed that caps are BS.

[sorry, been watching too much cspan lately]
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funchords @ 2nd Oct 05:54PM:
It is NOT new!

On August 28th, Comcast stressed that the 250 GB Excessive Use number was not a change in their practices. We didn't know why they were saying that at the time, but we found out a couple of days later, when the Florida AG's agreement was posted online.

The 250 GB disclosure is nothing more than assigning a safely-low "Excessive Use" number that allows Comcast to keep doing what it was already doing -- telling their top 1,000 consumers of bandwidth to knock it off or get lost.

Before October 1st, if a user appeared in the top 1,000 users list, Comcast would call and tell that user that they used too much bandwidth. If that call was the second in 6 months, the service would be discontinued. According to the stipulated findings in Florida AG document, Comcast disclosed to the user on the phone that that they were on the top 1,000 list (really?). Florida objected because that is not a useful disclosure, since users won't know from month-to-month how much bandwidth the 1,000th user will consume and won't know how much they must cut back (nor do regular customers know how much they can use).

After October 1st, if a user appears on the top 1,000 user list, and used more than 250 GB, Comcast will call and tell that user that they used too much bandwidth. If the call is the second in 6 months, the service would be discontinued. That user will be told that 250 GB is considered excessive use.

So nothing has really changed in practice, except now the users have a quantity in bandwidth that Comcast considers "Excessive Use." It will still only be the top 1,000 users (what Florida AG refers to as something like 'the previous disclosed threshold' in the agreement part of the settlement).

The problem is with the perception. The 250 GB amount is seen as a cap, VC investors will see it as a cap, and most people who haven't read that document think it's a cap because Comcast wants people to see it as a cap. But their Florida AG settlement requires both thresholds.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
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hottboiinnc @ 2nd Oct 06:00PM:
Re: Not sweating it. Yet.

I'm not replying in a hostile manner. I'm just stating the way Comcast is going to do business and its simple. If you don't like the way they do business 1, don't do business with them. 2 compete against them.

Their network, their business they can do what they want with it. and you're not going to be able to sit ant your computer and tell me that VZ isn't thinking about doing caps either. They're sitting there watching and seeing how it is going to play in the market before they do the same thing. Why wouldn't they want to save money and get rid of the bandwidth hogs. Bandwidth isn't free even for them.

I am also not ignoring your posts and I have the right to disagree with you. And if you want an SLA i suggest you pay for it. comcast and ever other Residential provider is not going to give you one for the price that you want for Internet. Get over it.
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wifi4milez @ 2nd Oct 06:02PM:
Re: Not sweating it. Yet.

said by thevorpal :

That said, I'd love a truely metered service that came with actual guarantees of service.
You very well might get your wish. In other countries metered service has been the norm for years, and many speculate its just around the corner for us as well. It has been argued that caps are just a segue to metered billing, but only time will tell.
--
If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly.
-Ronald Reagan-

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badtrip @ 2nd Oct 06:05PM:
The caps were the straw...

that broke the camel's back, for me at least. I am tired of trying to defend myself from folks that I am paying money to each month--folks that treat me with contempt and condescension.

Luckily there was a wireless ISP in my area and I am with them now. The company sales rep laughed when I asked her if there were data caps.

It is truly a sad state that Comcast is in regarding their customer satisfaction. I know that I am the exception to the rule. I hate Comcast so much I was willing to pay more per month and buy equipment to get away from Comcast.

While the vast majority may not be willing to pay money to get away from Comcast like I did, Comcast should still be very concerned. All it would take for a mass flight away from Comcast HSI is actual competition in the markets they do business.
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IM1811 @ 2nd Oct 06:06PM:
All You Can Eat No Fat People Allowed !

Maybe I'm missing something here. Please correct me if I'm wrong....
They sell a service, based on speed, that allows unlimited use. Once they find 'users' that USE more than they approve of, or more than what they consider 'normal', they no longer honor the 'unlimited' part of the service, and then cancel said service for cause. At the same time, they do not provide you with a method to monitor your usage, nor do they allow you to buy data "by the byte", all the while being the sole distributor of high-speed internet access to a majority of people in this country.

IMO this is just a ploy to keep people from downloading content on their computers in DIRECT COMPETITION to them, the CableCo's. And with the advent of Netflix, Ruku, XBox, Hulu and all the rest, if they don't move now, they will only lose big in the end. They really are just a bunch of Money Grubbing Shysters.
--
»www.bartgordon.net
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LeftOfSanity @ 2nd Oct 06:08PM:
Re: It's not all bad

said by sousademiami :

Not to mention we're still waiting on that mystical tool that will track our consumption that the Comcast fanboys keep spouting off about.
Why is it mystical? Because it isn't available yet?

And fanboy's spouting off? About a meter? I didn't know someone saying that Comcast has stated that they will have a meter available is spouting off. :uhh:

Sounds like your just biased.
--
Fighting on the Internet is like winning the Special Olympics. Win or lose, your still Retarted!
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LeftOfSanity @ 2nd Oct 06:11PM:
Re: rich get richer

said by FunnyBones :

This is all about money and bottom line is corrupt people want more money and they will do what ever they need to make a buck. Just look at the 700 billion dollar bail out....
Funny..So anyone who wants more money is corrupt? :uhh:
--
Fighting on the Internet is like winning the Special Olympics. Win or lose, your still Retarted!
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espaeth @ 2nd Oct 06:20PM:
Re: business class

said by rob27 :

they want more uses to switch to business class. why have a residential class anymore when it's limited. especially if your streaming audio 24/7 to three sources 250GB can fill up REAL QUICK!
Streaming 3 audio channels 24/7 doesn't sound like residential usage? Most folks sleep at some point.

Still, if you were streaming 3 feeds at 128kbps each 24/7, that'd still only be ~120GB/mo.
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espaeth @ 2nd Oct 06:25PM:
Re: It's not all bad

said by Corydon :

The one caveat is that the 250 GB cap must rise year over year or it will very quickly become unreasonable.
The cap will need to be adjusted based on actual network capacity.

Just because you have checks doesn't mean you have money in your bank account. Likewise, the caps need to have some basis on what can realistically be delivered.
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BF69 @ 2nd Oct 06:32PM:
Re: It is NOT new!

said by funchords :

The problem is with the perception. The 250 GB amount is seen as a cap, VC investors will see it as a cap, and most people who haven't read that document think it's a cap because Comcast wants people to see it as a cap. But their Florida AG settlement requires both thresholds.
IN FLORIDA. Comcast has no obligation to use both standards in any other state.
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FunnyBones @ 2nd Oct 06:34PM:
Re: rich get richer

said by LeftOfSanity :

said by FunnyBones :

This is all about money and bottom line is corrupt people want more money and they will do what ever they need to make a buck. Just look at the 700 billion dollar bail out....
Funny..So anyone who wants more money is corrupt? :uhh:
No just big corporations that lie about blocking people from websites and then put in stupid caps to line their pockets with gold off the people who have made them who they are is unthinkable. The bail out is another so yes some of the rich are corrupt.

Power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely .....
--
Are you part of the cattle?
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anon @ 2nd Oct 08:05PM:
Be happy you can get it

Thats all I can say.
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dadkins @ 2nd Oct 08:36PM:
Re: All You Can Eat No Fat People Allowed !

Show me where it says Unlimited.
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anon @ 2nd Oct 08:49PM:
Its Simple......

DON'T GIVE THEM YOUR MONEY IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT! You have a choice to use THEIR service by THEIR rules or don't. Even if they are the only BB provider in your town you can choose to find another hobby. People need to understand that internet access is a luxury item. It's the same as a boat, RV, or motorcycle. You don't need it to survive but it sure is fun.

The cap is like a speed limit sign. You may not agree with the speed limit and speed but if you get caught exceeding it too many times or by too much you loose your license. Your choices are to drive and obey the limit, speed and risk getting caught or don't drive at all because you don't like the limit.

The way the economy is going you might as well cancel the service anyway and save up to buy a gallon of gas or make your stupid house payment so that the bank wont go under.
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dvd536 @ 2nd Oct 09:39PM:
Re: .

said by blips :

"You give them an inch...and they take a mile"

The 250GB cap is the inch.

Wait until they take a mile.
Remember when rogers went pay for overage and that didn't net them what they hope for? YES! they dropped the threshhold limit so the even more moderate users were hitting it.
look for the same from comcast!
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee
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dvd536 @ 2nd Oct 09:41PM:
Re: Still Not Drinking the Koolaid

said by SilverSurfer :

Caps are bullshit. Period. It is nothing more than a way to get subscribers used to the idea of billing by the byte. 250 gigs seems gargantuan now to the people who still only use their Internet service to check email and the weather but the power users today will be the standard subscriber tomorrow. Caps/overages are just to pave the way for excessive price hikes/overage fees.
BINGO!
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee
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Renaldo @ 2nd Oct 10:09PM:
Wow

Lol I feel bad lucky we have one of the few cable companies that don't have caps. Caps are BS

Bronx NY
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funchords @ 2nd Oct 10:43PM:
Re: It is NOT new!

you might have something there
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Mizzat @ 3rd Oct 08:33AM:
For the children?

Have they used that excuse yet? It's to save the children?
--
-M
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DavisPhotog @ 3rd Oct 10:14AM:
Here's the problem...

Comcast really should not be allowed to go about implementing caps (like they have for the last 5+ years, albeit arbitrary ones) while at the same time throttling people's connections. It's the equivalent of double-dipping; they can't limit us once and then make that sort of cap unattainable by slowing our lines down.
--
I am the Flying Photog, see my website accordingly named Flyingphotog.com. User known formerly as zakooldude.
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Packeteers @ 3rd Oct 02:36PM:
high caps are fine

as long as ISPs use caps to spank abusers, they are fine.
once they start looking at their statistics, and decide
that by lowering caps they could harvest more profits from
very active users, that's when I'll start to chest thump.
my guess is, that's exactly what will happen with all those
MBA's trying to figure out how to beat their next quarter.
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nolesch @ 3rd Oct 10:11PM:
Re: It is NOT new!

This member is absolutely correct in his presentation. Although based on new statements, I've not seen the number 1000 used, only the top "percentage" or group of users ( think that is somewhat dynamic). Comcast representatives have gone on record and said there will be users that will use more than 250gb of data, and never receive notification of doing so. Comcast's goal is to target the extreme users, as they've always done. Now there's a figure to go by. A figure many screamed for time and time again, and probably for good reason. It's a guideline figure, not a hard and fast do or die value, or so they say. Since they've gone on public record as having said that, I'll keep my copy of that statement.
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anon @ 6th Oct 08:12AM:
Re: Its Simple......

said by Cybrtweek :

DON'T GIVE THEM YOUR MONEY IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT! You have a choice to use THEIR service by THEIR rules or don't. Even if they are the only BB provider in your town you can choose to find another hobby. People need to understand that internet access is a luxury item. It's the same as a boat, RV, or motorcycle. You don't need it to survive but it sure is fun.
This statement is so patently wrong, I don't know how any thinking person could make it, and I don't know where to start in trying to get you to see the light.

For the vast majority of Internet users, the Internet is no more a hobby, than using a hammer to build a house would be a hobby for a construction worker. The Internet is vital to teaching, business, science, the military, and a thousand other segments of our nations economy and society. Information is power. Comcast knows this.

Telecommuters, web designers, video artists, graphic designers, and a LEGION of others use the Internet daily in LARGE doses moving huge files around as part of their business, employment, as well as in their personal use.

And the work at home and small business trends are GROWING. If your paycheck depends on your ISP, then the ISP's actions are directly related to how you make your living, and your statement is patent BUNK. The use of the so-called "Business Account" to get good service at high speeds was travesty enough, but now you have to have one (yes, that's right, no CAP on their Business account customers!) to make full use of what they already gauranteed you. Read your Comcast contract. In four places on mine is mentions "Unlimited" use.

said by Cybrtweek :

The cap is like a speed limit sign. You may not agree with the speed limit and speed but if you get caught exceeding it too many times or by too much you loose your license. Your choices are to drive and obey the limit, speed and risk getting caught or don't drive at all because you don't like the limit.
There are a couple of glaring flaws in your logic. First, speed zones are clearly marked or posted on public roadways, and in 48 out of 50 states a mandatory speed limit of 25 miles per hour is common knowledge when the limit is not posted. There is no such "common speed limit" to use your terms, commonly used on the Internet.

Secondly, your car has a speedometer to TELL YOU when you have exceeded the speed posted. IF you go past that limit when equipped with a speedometer, then YES you have conciously violated the rules of the road.

Comcast provided no warning that they have a "speed limit" until very recently, and they have yet to give you your "speedometer". Or, in other words, no posting of allowed bandwidth (review their acceptable use pages online), and no tools to monitor it. It smacks of intrigue to say the least.

In any case, the cap is the equivalent of fixing the ignition system of your conveyence so that you can't exceed 55 miles per hour, or your engine stops and someone shows up to repossess your vehicle. It's glaringly ridiculous to use the traffic law analogy. A drivers license is a "privilege" issued to qualified drivers in a given state, and a safety issue is involved. Strenuous enforcement is required in this case.

I PAY COMCAST EVERY MONTH FOR A SERVICE. There is no alternate competitor with the same speeds available for this service in my area. They are a MONOPOLY.

They are out of control because they can be. They are greedy and lack the most basic of human emotions. But worst of all, they are lazy and disorganized, and an insult to honest businesses offering services in this country.

I was one of the lucky ones who were perfectly happy with Time Warner Roadrunner service, and had Comcast thrust upon me in one of the FCC approved cross country swaps to improve lobbyists bought and paid for politically obtained territories. My service has SUCKED since the event.

I never signed a Comcast agreement. My continued use of the service is an "implied" contract, so I'm screwed.

I never wanted or needed, nor would I have signed such an agreement.

This is a scam. And a damn clever one at that. Make no mistake, the next move will be pay by the packet past the cap. You are a bloody fool if you can't see it coming.

said by Cybrtweek :

The way the economy is going you might as well cancel the service anyway and save up to buy a gallon of gas or make your stupid house payment so that the bank wont go under.
And by doing so reward another set of jingoistic immoral criminals who run the Energy Monopolies and the Housing/Banking/Credit (The evil Triad) companies. I say let the banks go under if they are poorly run. Let Comcast go under for it's evil ways. Unless you get your paycheck from Comcast and have some axe to grind you're full of bull.

Better still, pay the $69.95 a month fee instead of the $49.95 a month fee, and get the business account with no limits, and THEN BITTORRENT DOWNLOAD THE BIGGEST MOVIES, VIDEOS, MP3 FILES, AND WHATEVER ELSE YOU CAN THINK OF 24 HOURS A DAY!! Let's see what they do about that. Oh... I know... a CAP for business use too!!! Let's see how that one goes down with their business customers.
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